Supporting GGG and PoE, but not necessarily Bestiary Leaguespansion

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FCK42 wrote:

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diktaturr194 wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Ever talked with people that hunt and eat what they hunt about people hunting for sport and leaving the corpses behind to rot only taking a memento or trophy?

This argument does not address people who actually cannot survive without eating animals. I don't know any such people and I strongly suppose neither do you.
Someone that hunts and kills animals in a first world country still does it for his personal enjoyment, nothing else.

This right here is a prime example of what what Boem was referring to as "uneducated". While there ARE people whot hunt for their enjoyment, most do it to either preserve the ecosystem or to prevent wild animals from causing large amounts of damage to harvests. Have you ever seen how a field looks after a group of hungry boars went through, looking for food?
So while we do not directly depend on animal meat, we still need to keep their numbers in check to protect the crops and thus the food supply. Where I live at least.

This is completely beside the point though. In more ways than one. Coming back to animal cruelty, (which, again, wasn't even the point of this thread) hunters try to kill the animals they have to in the least cruel way possible. It's part of their job to keep the suffering of the animals, be it injury from accidents, food shortage or when they kill them, to a minimum. Unfortunately there is no direct translation to english for the german word "Gnadenschuss", but maybe you know the term "coup de grâce"? The act of killing out of mercy.
But, well since everyone who hunts animals in a first world country does so for his own amusement, I guess killing animals that are terminally injured and suffering from traffic accidents is completely out of the question aswell.
And it's still not the point.

This whole thread was originally immersion related. Which is perfectly understandable and actually easy to fix. A unique dialogue for each of the 7 exiles with personalised justification would do the trick. Like "This way you can learn a way to save them from corruption" to the ranger or "You'll gain power" to the shadow. That's basically all that's needed to fix it.

Hunting is seriously regulated, even in 3rd world countries. There are entire federal and state organized payed for by taxes who oversee the population and determine the seasons, how many each person is allowed and sell tags/licenses that bring in quite a lot of revenue. Even in africa when you see people posing next to lions/elephants they paid HUGE money to get a permit from the local government which goes back into conversation. It's not like they just fly to africa and pillage the place.

Deer is probably the most popular in the USA. There are seasons for it, if you kill any animal out of season you a poaching and the fines are tremendous. Where I live it's about 2 months or so, and it usually starts with bows/blackpowder then goes into rifle. I recently moved and I was pretty amazed im allowed a deer a day here since I'm a land owner with good hunting on the place. If you hunt elsewhere you need to buy tags, and even so the deer I shoot on my place I'm required to send in my number to the state office to let them know I got one so they can use that for next years projections. 1 good sized deer processed by a professional USDA inspected place costs me 60 bucks, and gave me enough meat to last me a month of half.

I think too many people have this perception that hunting animals is just willy nilly no conservation involved free for all poaching going on all the time and that's not the case.

About cruelty, it's in your best interest from a quality of meat perspective for the animal to die pretty much instantly. When an animal is shot badly but and runs around and bleeds out it releases tons of hormones into the meat and builds up lactic acid which discolors the meat and some people seem to think effect the taste negatively.

https://meat.tamu.edu/2013/01/22/dark-cutting-beef/ , a good example in beef.

^I am aware of that.

He was discussing animal cruelty in relation to regulated food or how being a vegan is supposedly in his mind always better then eating meat when it comes to the survival of animals.

Like you say, a hunter will aim for a mercy kill(instantly) because it will preserve the meat in it's best state and simply because it's what you require to survive.
There is no added benefit to torturing an animal in that position.

Killing something for it's meat as a means to survival is "morally just" sort of speak. As long as you treat the animal with respect and everything you take from it.(which is why we focus on animals we can "farm" easily, but also use most parts of)

Killing an animal by first shooting it in both legs, then putting it on display for other people that enjoy suffering and letting it bleed out is very much considered "morally wrong".

Now in relation to the game, since it is "a game" i have no issue with people wanting to "role-play" the morally wrong option.
But i still would have enjoyed the whole concept more if there was an option to also "role-play" morally just.

I'm not going to be offended by this league, or lose any sleep over it, i don't think Charan will either.
I think his concern is the relation of background lore with this "one option". He's pretty much right if he would say something like "i don't think the ranger would ever do this, irrelevant of the power she could gain". Since it basically violates all her background about "one with nature".

I got better stuff to be offended by if i desired so.

But i still think an option or choice would have been beneficial to the game as a whole.

Peace,

-Boem-

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FCK42 wrote:

This right here is a prime example of what what Boem was referring to as "uneducated". While there ARE people whot hunt for their enjoyment, most do it to either preserve the ecosystem or to prevent wild animals from causing large amounts of damage to harvests. Have you ever seen how a field looks after a group of hungry boars went through, looking for food?
So while we do not directly depend on animal meat, we still need to keep their numbers in check to protect the crops and thus the food supply. Where I live at least.

Yes, there are edge-cases where killing any animal is probably morally justifiable. Does the world of meat eaters eat meat that was acquired by these edge-cases? No. It eats meat that was mass produced by animals that were artificially raised just for the purpose of later consuming them.
Does the OP eat meat that was acquired from the edge cases? Most likely not.
If he does, then my argument against his grief falls apart. I just highly doubt it.

The premise of my argument is him eating meat for his own enjoyment. You bringing up edge cases were animals are not killed for enjoyment are thus irrelevant to my argument. Completely senseless. I don't know how you fail to see this, please reconsider your thought process.

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FCK42 wrote:

This whole thread was originally immersion related. Which is perfectly understandable and actually easy to fix.

The whole thread is related to a person feeling morally superior to the acts that his character he represents in a video game is commiting to.
I showed this person that his sense for moral superiority is unjustified.
Unless, of course, my premise does not apply.

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Boem wrote:

You realize that there are cases where it's more beneficial to nature as a whole to eat meat right?

As mentioned above, these edge cases are not relevant to my argument as they violate my premise. I did not state that eating meat is always morally inferior to not eating meat. I said that eating meat for your own enjoyment implies a certain amount of unmorality and that this combines poorly with acting morally high.

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Boem wrote:

Those meat replacements aren't fabricated out of thin air and if there not created in the area you live, but meat could, you can be pretty much certain your harming nature more by eating meat replacements then going for meat.

Educate yourself a little, please. Mass meat production surely does not do the nature better than mass production of vegan alternatives.
This has been calculated numerous and numerous times and you can read about it in your favorite article.

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Boem wrote:

I call it uneducated because no thought or logic was put into it. Or there was but it reeks of ignorance on a macro scale.

There is no ignorance to it, it's a simple fact. If you think that the mass meat production is somehow morally OK then you are foolish.
I would like to state that I am not a vegan, not even a vegetarian. That doesn't prevent me from seeing that it's immoral.

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Boem wrote:

Ignoring the fact it fly's past the point of the OP or even the reason why he posted entirely, which is also an indication of thought put in your response.

So if I go around and shoot people on the regular but then claim I cannot play GTA because it requires me to steal from people ... you would say that is a mentally healthy and logical statement for me to make?
Yeah, sure ...

[Removed by Support] who cares about your morality in real life? Especially in a video game? My morality is what the law says I can't do.

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oldmunchi wrote:

[Removed by Support] who cares about your morality in real life? Especially in a video game? My morality is what the law says I can't do.

Because there is a recent trend of developers caving to reddit/SJW mentalities. Hopefully they see how pointless it is though, games that do that recently like the new mass effect and wolfenstien didn't do so well.

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oldmunchi wrote:

My morality is what the law says I can't do.

Morality is internal, not something you can outsource to others.

Not killing people because you believe that doing so is wrong is an example of morality - not killing people because you don't want to go to prison is not; it's not wanting to go to prison. If you only refrain from doing something out of self-interest, that isn't morality.

Tell that to most societies. Please, scream it at them.

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Boem wrote:

You realize that there are cases where it's more beneficial to nature as a whole to eat meat right?

Those meat replacements aren't fabricated out of thin air and if there not created in the area you live, but meat could, you can be pretty much certain your harming nature more by eating meat replacements then going for meat.

But guess what, it's not your nature so no fucks are given.

I call it uneducated because no thought or logic was put into it. Or there was but it reeks of ignorance on a macro scale.

Why even partake in a consumer driven society if nature is your main concern in life.

Not having to eat meat doesn't equate to being better for nature or animals on a macro scale = uneducated.

Ignoring the fact it fly's past the point of the OP or even the reason why he posted entirely, which is also an indication of thought put in your response.

Peace,

-Boem-

Why speak about this on a macro scale instead of a micro scale which it is all about?
You claim to dislike the idea of caging animals and then sacrificing them to gain power.
So seeing as we aren't talking on a macro scale but on a individual scale, are you taking the opportunity to not support the meat industry by choosing non-animal products? Or at least non-meat products?
It doesn't matter that if EVERYONE stopped eating meat it would be bad, we are talking about you and surely you have the option to do this without harming the world on a macro scale.

You are so opposed to the idea of caging and sacrificing innocent animals that even in a video game you would want a choice to abstain.
But in the real world where you have the ability to abstain from meat products or maybe animal products as a whole without harming the world on a macro scale and thus at least not personally contribute to the raising and slaughtering of innocent animals.

And if you claim you are only eating meat, not for your own enjoyment, but for some elaborate plot to not harm nature on a macro scale then you are lying through your teeth.

You are dodging the question because you realize reveals your virtue signaling.

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Fruktlimpa wrote:

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Boem wrote:

You realize that there are cases where it's more beneficial to nature as a whole to eat meat right?

Those meat replacements aren't fabricated out of thin air and if there not created in the area you live, but meat could, you can be pretty much certain your harming nature more by eating meat replacements then going for meat.

But guess what, it's not your nature so no fucks are given.

I call it uneducated because no thought or logic was put into it. Or there was but it reeks of ignorance on a macro scale.

Why even partake in a consumer driven society if nature is your main concern in life.

Not having to eat meat doesn't equate to being better for nature or animals on a macro scale = uneducated.

Ignoring the fact it fly's past the point of the OP or even the reason why he posted entirely, which is also an indication of thought put in your response.

Peace,

-Boem-

Why speak about this on a macro scale instead of a micro scale which it is all about?
You claim to dislike the idea of caging animals and then sacrificing them to gain power.
So seeing as we aren't talking on a macro scale but on a individual scale, are you taking the opportunity to not support the meat industry by choosing non-animal products? Or at least non-meat products?
It doesn't matter that if EVERYONE stopped eating meat it would be bad, we are talking about you and surely you have the option to do this without harming the world on a macro scale.

You are so opposed to the idea of caging and sacrificing innocent animals that even in a video game you would want a choice to abstain.
But in the real world where you have the ability to abstain from meat products or maybe animal products as a whole without harming the world on a macro scale and thus at least not personally contribute to the raising and slaughtering of innocent animals.

And if you claim you are only eating meat, not for your own enjoyment, but for some elaborate plot to not harm nature on a macro scale then you are lying through your teeth.

You are dodging the question because you realize reveals your virtue signaling.

[Removed by Support]

Since this thread was never a PETA justice thread and i didn't turn it into one, i just responded to people like you that have no clue how things are linked together in this world on a macro scale.

Need i repeat myself again?

You know what i'll bold it for you?

I don't give a shit about in-game morality.

I don't play this game for the lore aspect of it. But hiy, i don't live in a bubble either and i can easily imagine that a portion of the community does play for the lore of the game.
And the way of handling the "cage and sacrifice" of this league functions opposes lore.

It goes against the "morality" of the characters portrayed on the character creation screen.
And that can be argued is a justified concern when discussing an ARPG and justifies a post like the OP.

For which, to be clear, you don't have to agree with or even contribute to.

[Removed by Support]

In the mean time, leave the people that wanna discuss the OP and the new league in relation to game's lore to the people that wanna discuss that angle.

Go, create your thread.

Peace,

-Boem-

My take on this whole thread, and what I think Charan was trying to articulate (and I may well be wrong) is this:

We spend the entire game killing everything, including major and minor gods, as quickly as possible. We harvest power from an entire pantheon and trap souls to eternally serve us a mediators of that power siphoned from the gods ( with a bonus of course).

Now we are capturing and sacrificing animals for power, and it just seems like small potatoes. What reasonable amount of power would we really expect from a petty sacrifice when we are already enslaving gods? And going very specifically out of the way to do it at that. Not just in the lore, but as players we must in a real world take the time to find and throw nets at the mobs.

It’s not continuous at this point. It’s some sort of primitive witchdoctor type of spell for marginal gains standing in the face of a mind-bending reality that forms the atlas system. Why can’t we just tow the dude into a chimera pit and let him get his jollies from a screen or two of shattered mobs? Why can’t he glean his power from the many horrors that roam the depths already?

If the exact same league were focused on ghosts or spirits, the ghostbuster memes would replace the Pokémon memes, but at least it would retain the simblance of mystery and darkness that we are used to.