Supporting GGG and PoE, but not necessarily Bestiary Leaguespansion

What stops you just have them for decoration like a zoo?

Don't have to kill them if your morals are against it.You own a zoo already,so I don't get it

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Knowledged3 wrote:

Is your guild SSF orientated?

I'm considering making the switch, or at least having an SSF alt, but it literally changes prespective on the entire game.

No, it's 'oh hey, you haven't been on in a while, how's life' orientated.

It's not open to new members for their own good.

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The_Scourge wrote:

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Knowledged3 wrote:

Is your guild SSF orientated?

I'm considering making the switch, or at least having an SSF alt, but it literally changes prespective on the entire game.

No, it's 'oh hey, you haven't been on in a while, how's life' orientated.

It's not open to new members for their own good.

Fair enough. Just thought I'd ask :)

Yeah I'm not a fan of the "sacrifice" bit.

I was actually hoping for a bit of a nature-themed expansion after all the endless otherwordly evils they've been adding, so the name was promising. And a bestiary in the sense of learning about the creatures of the world because knowledge is the key to surviving a dangerous land? Sure, that part sounds great. But caging creatures for ritual sacrifice in order to increase personal power? That's straight-up "we're the baddies" territory.

They might yet have in-game lore text to address this (like Tora - you're specifically killing "corrupted" creatures), but it's not evident in the info released so far, which seems like a mistake to me.

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elwindakos wrote:

What stops you just have them for decoration like a zoo?

Don't have to kill them if your morals are against it.You own a zoo already,so I don't get it

For a start, those cages look really savage and inhumane.

Also, this isn't just about 'me'. It very rarely is. I'm not that sort of person. I dislike the image this concept gives to PoE overall. I mean, yes. Dark and unforgiving and cruel. That's Wraeclast. But for five years now, animal companions have been cute and shiny and really 'not' part of Wraeclast. But a lot of them have been seen in Wraeclast in an untouchable form, which is nice. I've loved that there's been a fairly clear line between Wraeclast's fauna and its threats.

A zoo is a sanctuary, not an abattoir. I don't really equate what I did with what you will be doing, beyond the basic idea of 'removing animals from the wild'.

Also, here's a kicker.

A Bestiary is, according to MW, "a medieval allegorical or moralizing work on the appearance and habits of real or imaginary animals". That'd be the book-thing we see in the trailer. THAT interested me. Observe and learn about the beasts, maybe finding weak spots and increasing drop chances, etc. THAT would be be awesome. But 'moralizing' isn't exactly what I see going on here. Quite the opposite.

This whole thing is off.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Yeah I'm not a fan of the "sacrifice" bit.

I was actually hoping for a bit of a nature-themed expansion after all the endless otherwordly evils they've been adding, so the name was promising. And a bestiary in the sense of learning about the creatures of the world because knowledge is the key to surviving a dangerous land? Sure, that part sounds great. But caging creatures for ritual sacrifice in order to increase personal power? That's straight-up "we're the baddies" territory.

They might yet have in-game lore text to address this (like Tora - you're specifically killing "corrupted" creatures), but it's not evident in the info released so far, which seems like a mistake to me.

Jesus, have we finally agreed on something for the first time since March 2012?

Wow.

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The_Scourge wrote:

It's one thing to hunt monsters in the wild. It's another altogether to cage them and then slaughter them after very likely maltreating them...and to get significant rewards for slaughtering them. I'll kill all the demons and miscreants you throw at me, but murdering captive rhoas and crabs? No thanks.

Are you aware that we are playing a videogame? I mean we could be capturing and caging women and children, sacrificing them to Atziri and it would be alright and lore-fitting with the game.

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The_Scourge wrote:

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elwindakos wrote:

What stops you just have them for decoration like a zoo?

Don't have to kill them if your morals are against it.You own a zoo already,so I don't get it

For a start, those cages look really savage and inhumane.

Also, this isn't just about 'me'. It very rarely is. I'm not that sort of person. I dislike the image this concept gives to PoE overall. I mean, yes. Dark and unforgiving and cruel. That's Wraeclast. But for five years now, animal companions have been cute and shiny and really 'not' part of Wraeclast. But a lot of them have been seen in Wraeclast in an untouchable form, which is nice. I've loved that there's been a fairly clear line between Wraeclast's fauna and its threats.

A zoo is a sanctuary, not an abattoir. I don't really equate what I did with what you will be doing, beyond the basic idea of 'removing animals from the wild'.

Also, here's a kicker.

A Bestiary is, according to MW, "a medieval allegorical or moralizing work on the appearance and habits of real or imaginary animals". That'd be the book-thing we see in the trailer. THAT interested me. Observe and learn about the beasts, maybe finding weak spots and increasing drop chances, etc. THAT would be be awesome. But 'moralizing' isn't exactly what I see going on here. Quite the opposite.

This whole thing is off.

I can understand the sentiment.

For me personal don't know how this will stick to players in general.I mean,its something else to be done in parallel with other million things PoE offers.

It's a league after all.If it is not liked at all,GGG can ditch it.Its clever really,cause this is an expansion, covered by the league concept.

And its great.I mean,harbingers didn't stick around and they will be forgotten in time.Same could happen now or have an absolute new direction on the game.Risky and no risky at the same time.

And if it sticks,it can have many improvements in future.Maybe we can have races with them or whatever instead of killing them only.Just some random thoughts

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A lion tried to attack and kill a hunter because that's what lions do.

The hunter, rather than kill it in self-defence, captured it and then took it home. He put it in a cage. And when he was good and ready, he weakened it and slaughtered it to gain its power with dark rituals. That's your scenario, properly portrayed.

The lion (or the rhoa, or whatever) is not able to choose its actions. The Exile is. Except now there's significant reward to choose the cruel method, the vaguely psychopathic behaviour. Which is fine -- I've long held the Exile is a psychopath anyway. But I think GGG have been too flippant this time in their expression of it. Torturing and killing animals is early stage psychopathic behaviour; the Exile is already up to being an amoral genocide on legs.

It's all just...a bit tasteless really.

You must have never played the Grand Theft Auto games.

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Mezion wrote:

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The_Scourge wrote:

It's one thing to hunt monsters in the wild. It's another altogether to cage them and then slaughter them after very likely maltreating them...and to get significant rewards for slaughtering them. I'll kill all the demons and miscreants you throw at me, but murdering captive rhoas and crabs? No thanks.

Are you aware that we are playing a videogame? I mean we could be capturing and caging women and children, sacrificing them to Atziri and it would be alright and lore-fitting with the game.

Sooner or later you people are going to get bored of that excuse. Probably later, but still.

And no, we couldn't be doing that because the game is now out in China and they would censor the shit out of that.

Animal slaughter, though? Shit, my ancestral people have been doing that for millennia, but almost always with necessity in mind. I'm not a vegan. I've eaten meats most people here probably wouldn't. I've seen an animal killed in a pit and eaten it a few hours later. That's just who we are. Our 'right' as the species that stood upright, developed opposable thumbs and asserted dominance over the animal kingdom. I am not some hippy getting up in arms about the food chain.

I am angry that GGG have introduced a mechanic that encourages torture and murder of lesser things for power. It's a huge fucking step down from facing gods and elders and shapers. It is punching-down, plain and simple.

Consider Tora. Tora would have been the perfect npc for this. She understands the balance. She's a hunter. I'd like to believe she'd be horrified by the Bestiary league. Every bit of it.

So yeah, 'just a game'. Easy enough to say when someone questions the moral implications of a league, but gosh, you sure don't say that when you die and lose all that experience or some fuckwit scams you in a trade or your favourite build gets nerfed. Sorry, you don't get to be serious about some aspects of the game but not so serious about others just because you don't see the impact of anything that doesn't directly affect you.