Supporting GGG and PoE, but not necessarily Bestiary Leaguespansion

Let's say you cut Tinker Bell's head off, and use it for a ring. The head has +10-15% movement speed on it. You make the ring, and +10-15% movement speed becomes that ring's base mod. You can then proceed to craft the ring normally after that.

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FCK42 wrote:

Once again, this is not about the fact that we're going to capture and sacrifice them, animal cruelty or anything like that. It's about both the justification and the reason for doing it from the perspective of the ingame exiles, viewed through their personalities.

It just doesn't fit Ranger and Templar for example unless it has some sort of corruption cleansing as a background information. Which I doubt. They wouldn't accept doing that with any other justification. NEVER.

The other part is the reason why. We already enslaved and killed GODS, why would we bother with shamanistic rites if we could kill the beings we're calling upon? Unless of course, we can't (in the case of other eldritch beings like for example the first ones). The gods aren't omnipotent in PoE. So if we really call upon a force that surpasses EVERYTHING else, then I have no problem with it. If it's just some random half assed explanation, then it just won't cut it. It would make no sense.

Why are some of you getting it so easily and some not? I have trouble with accusations of trolling when it seems the people trolling are those going out of their way to miss the point. If NONE of you got it, I'd blame myself, but several of you are absolutely on the same page as me even if you don't necessarily agree (which is perfectly fine).

Is it just because you're used to my way of typing, so to speak?

Here is how the mechanics could work. Ok you got a captured animal in a cage. You have several options:

All processing kills the animal.

- Remove body part. Could be head, leg, arm, antennae, depends on the animal type. Each body part per animal has a variety of mods that can roll, as well as mod ranges.

- Toss it into a meat grinder. Some kinda lab trap with a visceral animation would be neat. This randomizes which body parts you get, and allows you to get body parts that you can't obtain from remove body part. Meat grinder mods should be higher tier.

- Eviscerate the animal's bowels. Let's say you need a liver, heart, lungs, or intestines for a bow string, this is how you get it. Or you could get none of the above, and find currency or skill gems in the animal's innards. Some randomness involved.

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The other part is the reason why. We already enslaved and killed GODS, why would we bother with shamanistic rites if we could kill the beings we're calling upon? Unless of course, we can't (in the case of other eldritch beings like for example the first ones). The gods aren't omnipotent in PoE. So if we really call upon a force that surpasses EVERYTHING else, then I have no problem with it. If it's just some random half assed explanation, then it just won't cut it. It would make no sense.

So this is the point we are missing?

When a league comes,you are level 1 floating piece of trash. You haven't slain or enslaved anything, the exile is no one.

I mean,even today on our blessed earth,there are religious people that sacrifice animals. Same goes for hunters.

If someone wants to be a RPing SJW to mirror their real life values, then by all means play Ranger or Templar. Nobody is forcing you to engage in the new mechanics, or use products made from animals.

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Head_Less wrote:

you are making a mistake when talking about killing gods and what s not. If you take the pov of a temp league your character will not have killed gods or even killed piety before the first animal ritual will be done.

Remember each league is a fresh start again those exiles just arrived on the island.

That's a good point. But it doesn't change the fact that if the Exile is shaped by their experiences on Wraeclast, and later Oriath and in the...whatever GGG call their Planeswalking bit of the game, then a deviation from the usual trajectory into dedicated animal-keeping and eventual sacrifice should change that character themselves. And I maintain that what we do know of these archetypes, at least half of them would take exception to the concept in the first place.

This may all just be a strange anomaly wherein the 'true' gods of Wraeclast's seemingly eternal recurrence experimented with turning the Exiles into something...very unnatural, but that sort of hand-waving is...very metagamey, at best. We have no evidence that there is a power above and beyond the gods of Wraeclast, even if they themselves are nothing more than former mortals embodying various very mortal ambitions and ideals.

Either way, while you're right that with a new league we're fresh off the boat and the eventual future of being a god-slaying powerslave is a long way off, GGG still have the ultimate say in how the Exiles reach that eventuality. And Bestiary doesn't seem to be a step forward from the ways we've been presented so far.

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Bestiary had potential as a concept. A lot of potential. I just think how it's being done was not as well thought-out as it could have been, in terms of being true and sincere to the setting and the evolution of Wraeclast as a game world epitomising the idea that those who don't eat are eaten; those who don't kill get killed. The stronger the foe, the greater the reward. This has always seemed a fairly concrete concept not just in POE but in most (A)RPGs, to the point where a lot of DMs and GMs will often make player-characters' lives difficult if they try to metagame to get rich/farm xp outside of campaigns and adventures that drive this core message home. And while some captured beasts might be super powerful, there's no way they'd be as powerful in a cage or a pit as they would be in their natural environs**. In this way, Bestiary contradicts some pretty core ideas of PoE. I think gleaning knowledge from captured enemies is an excellent concept, and within Wraeclast that might be a pretty grisly process (give or take Chinese censorship, lol -- oh, the irony). But what is there to gain from fighting them after keeping them locked up? I think that's where Bestiary falls down. The sacrifice struck me as out of character, but even beyond that, this petty pit-fighting gimmick is...cheap.

And I also think GGG know the vast majority of their playerbase don't think about this stuff at all. I also know at least one dev was suspecting *someone* would call them out on this dubious addition to Wraeclast, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had me on a hypothetical short list. I DO think about this stuff, openly a lot of the time. And if I didn't think GGG were typically VERY good at adding to Wraeclast and to the Exile's overall experience, I wouldn't be here doing this.

They can do far better than what Bestiary offers, and I'm happy to call them out on that.

I'm just jumping the gun here for when most of you realise how boring and tedious Bestiary will be in practice. You're all used to the speed and efficiency of killing hordes of enemies instantly. What makes you think delaying that in any way is going to be any fun?

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**Unless we augment them like mad scientists, in which case I once again draw unsavoury parallels to Piety, Maligaro, Shavronne and pretty much every other so-called 'bad guy' in the game. If GGG want to blur that line, more power to them, but they need to commit to that drastic change in character. And they need to justify it.

I don't mind a slower pace league for a change, though I am in the minority I'm sure.

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The_Scourge wrote:

Unless we augment them like mad scientists, in which case I once again draw unsavoury parallels to Piety, Maligaro, Shavronne and pretty much every other so-called 'bad guy' in the game. If GGG want to blur that line, more power to them, but they need to commit to that drastic change in character. And they need to justify it.

I agree with you there.

For those that have missed this thread so far I'll summarise it for you.

Someone thought that the idea of collecting info on the beasts that inhabit wraeclast was a great idea, to make a beastiary. They also thought that the implementation, as shown, was dark and seemed out of character for the exiles as we know them currently.

Some people agreed with this.

Some different people disagreed.

A significant mass of other people didnt actually bother reading anything and just started spewing vitriol everywhere..

Welcome to the poe forums.

As for me, where I sit, some choice like Boem and CaptainWARLORD suggested would be nice. For a real game implementation of this in a fps I could point out Bioshock. For those not familiar, you have to harvest some goop stuff to save yourself from these corrupted children. You can do that and uncorrupt them or you can take it from their corpse. The outcome is the same, regardless of your choice, but its your choice. Ill say that again, its your choice but the outcome is the same

Why is this important? Its a game, and we play the way we like. I hold no moral highground over people that want to go slaughter animals in a virtual setting, but it doesnt mean I'd like to do the same. Thats why I don't play games like GTA or Big game hunter. They are unappealing to me. What you do is up to you.

But its just a game, get over it?? Yes, and its also art, and good art gets you invested at some emotional or cognitive level. For me, i dont think my ranger or templar would do the things this league is asking it to do, and id argue that its actually below the witch too.

You, my dear readers will be invested differently to I and have different ideas and thats fine too. Just, some choice would be nice. ..

Cheers,
Matt.

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The_Scourge wrote:

That is NOT the Exile's way, at least it wasn't until now.

"the exile's way" includes things like murdering children (witch), assassinating people for money (shadow), killing your own spouse in his sleep (scion) and stabbing some guy to death over a petty insult (duelist)

i dont see why you consider the killing of animals for power to be so out of character for these exiles. they are cold-blooded murderers to begin with.

I'm an atheist and I eat beef.