Fuck the lab

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kompaniet wrote:

Would it be ok to be added to the list of players disliking lab?

You have already honored the list by being a long time member. :-)

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Jideament wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Regarding your assertion about lab being the worst addition to any game in the last 30 years, I've been playing computer games for longer, for about 40 years. Since before computer games were even available for purchase. Way before personal computers. Of course I can't be familiar with all additions to all games. I can confidently say though that lab is the worst addition to any game that I've ever seen.

does this mean that you agree or disagree with turtledove?

Don't personally find the Lab being a fun place, I run it only for getting the last 2 points, but since it only gives you ONE chance per offering, I usually try be very careful and try find some darkshrines to aid against the Lab traps, I really, really dislike those.

I'd even be happy to pay 5 offerings to just do the boss fights and skip the running parts. Boss fights are the only part I actually find some amusement, unless it's the lieutenants omg I hate the reflect guy! (Personal hate towards whoever designed that mob! :3 )

_Skittles_

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_Skittles_ wrote:

Don't personally find the Lab being a fun place, I run it only for getting the last 2 points, but since it only gives you ONE chance per offering, I usually try be very careful and try find some darkshrines to aid against the Lab traps, I really, really dislike those.

I'd even be happy to pay 5 offerings to just do the boss fights and skip the running parts. Boss fights are the only part I actually find some amusement, unless it's the lieutenants omg I hate the reflect guy! (Personal hate towards whoever designed that mob! :3 )

_Skittles_

Yes, getting the darkshrines can be a huge help. It means having to be in the loathsome place longer but it's well worth it to reduce the chance that the whole thing has to be rerun from the beginning. It's also important that the first two times you do Izaro you don't leave him buffed for the third encounter. zSavage's Brief Guide on how to Kill Izaro In that guide he also makes an excellent suggestion to use a culling strike. This will reduce the last encounter by almost a third since Izaro is already down to one third at that point. I just link the culling strike to my golem and it works great.

_Skittles_ thank you for voicing your opinion on the not fun labyrinth. I like your suggestion about the extra offerings. I've added your name to the list of people that have voiced similar opinions now at 977 account names long. As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 370 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 970 posters in support

Nice Whiners list you got going there xd

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Xtorma wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

I used to be opposed to making the lab optional, but still receiving the rewards like you did it, but now I would not be opposed, as long as they apply it across the board. In my case, I loath the highgate acts. I have to do them though, because I want to progress, and get the rewards, namely the skill points. If they would make it so I could bypass highgate, Then I see no reason to be opposed to anyone bypassing the lab.

If you can pinpoint the things about those acts that you find less enjoyable than the rest of the game, I'd be more than happy to read about it and see where GGG could improve it, and make it more enjoyable for you. The less things that drain the fun from the game, the better.

People who dislike the Labyrinth for more than its "challenge" or lack thereof, but more on a conceptual level (game design philosophy), have very valid reasons to want to see change that the developers should want too, judging by the game design of the rest of the game and manifestos that explain their reasoning on everything else. The Labyrinth sticks out like a sore thumb.

Taking everything else into consideration on this, it still baffles me why there has been such resistance to changing the Labyrinth, or separating the Ascendancy Classes from it, unless the content is the pet project of one of the 3 core members of GGG, and they want to force everyone to play that content, no matter if they like it or not.

Lab is part of the core game now, just as Act 4 is. Aspects of the lab can be found in maps , and in the story mode. As the game progresses , more and more lab mechanics are making their way into the game outside of the lab. The lab is part of the game now, just as much as any of the league mechanics that have been made permanent additions, or any part of the story mode.

That being observed, then it makes perfect sense to me that asking to bypass act 4 just because I don't like it is the same as asking to bypass the lab just because you don't like it. Fair.

Bypassing an entire act vs one terrible septic piece of content isn't the same thing. That being said you make a good point. perhaps the story and Lab should be done once per season then its FFA.

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Xtorma wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

Lab is part of the core game now, just as Act 4 is. Aspects of the lab can be found in maps , and in the story mode. As the game progresses , more and more lab mechanics are making their way into the game outside of the lab. The lab is part of the game now, just as much as any of the league mechanics that have been made permanent additions, or any part of the story mode.

That being observed, then it makes perfect sense to me that asking to bypass act 4 just because I don't like it is the same as asking to bypass the lab just because you don't like it. Fair.

Totally irrelevant and off topic to this thread. This thread is about Labyrinth. Please go start up your own thread if you'd like to discuss bypassing Act 4.

Na. Perfectly on topic.

And like act 4 im sure your ok with infinite lives to finish the lab I see, since you want all content the same.

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_Skittles_ wrote:

Don't personally find the Lab being a fun place, I run it only for getting the last 2 points, but since it only gives you ONE chance per offering, I usually try be very careful and try find some darkshrines to aid against the Lab traps, I really, really dislike those.

I'd even be happy to pay 5 offerings to just do the boss fights and skip the running parts. Boss fights are the only part I actually find some amusement, unless it's the lieutenants omg I hate the reflect guy! (Personal hate towards whoever designed that mob! :3 )

_Skittles_

Since they disliked my idea of sending in a video getting kicked in the balls to avoid it, I doubt they will be ok with 5 offerings.

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kompaniet wrote:

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Jideament wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Regarding your assertion about lab being the worst addition to any game in the last 30 years, I've been playing computer games for longer, for about 40 years. Since before computer games were even available for purchase. Way before personal computers. Of course I can't be familiar with all additions to all games. I can confidently say though that lab is the worst addition to any game that I've ever seen.

does this mean that you agree or disagree with turtledove?

I'm %100 positive about all that he/she said.

Add my name to that list. The lab itself is a neat enough idea, it's just extremely poorly implemented. Pretty much all my deaths are to traps that I'm unable to plan a path through because I can't see far enough ahead to figure out where to go. My whole screen in the direction I'm trying to go is just traps, I can't see any safe areas so if I want to progress I have no choice but to run blindly through and hope for the best. It's terrible design, plain and simple.

Some builds have an easier time with it than others, but all builds need to run it, this a problem. Basically for any build with good health regen and lightning warp, the lab isn't going to be too bad, maybe even something approaching fun. But for a build with no health regen it's an absolute nightmare. Traps sap your health extremely quickly, and if you run out of potions you are totally screwed because you are going to get hit by the traps a lot because as I said above, you can't see what's up ahead. Some trap setups are simply impossible to get past without getting hit as well.

My question regarding the lab is, where's the fun? It's just frustration from start to finish. Other challenging parts of the game still have this element of fun, but not the lab because you know you're just one unlucky rng roll away from having to start all over and losing an offering. I could honestly see the lab being fun if the traps were easier to traverse and survive. They need a complete overhaul in my opinion.