Fuck the lab
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I hate the labyrinth too.
It just doesn't fit into the concept of a hack'n'slay game, traps and puzzles are just a totally different genre. I basically came here to play a larger Diablo 1 and 2 with modern graphics and I get forced into Tomb Raider. If you like jump'n'run, that's your problem, but please don't make it my problem by messing up my Diablo experience with it. I furthermore hate that the Über-lab is gated behind most annoying RNG by having to find all six trials and have to continue to find trials for a supply of offerings. It took me five weeks to find all trials in abyss league. Trials are not only very annoying to run but also time consuming. This pushes a lot of players into trade-to-win by buying their trial runs and offerings, and the large role trade-to-win plays in POE is another thing I hate. Argus and Izaro fights are dangerous for many builds, so I usually am very overlevelled when I finally do them. Others just pay for carry. My very first death in POE was in my very first trial, since I was a completely new player and had no idea what the hell this content was and what precisely I was required to do there. The description (something like "solve all trials of ascendancy") explained nothing and that thing was, as usual with POE, not self explanatory at all. So I stumbled around, ran out of life flasks and died for the first time - after not dying to Brutus or Merveil I died to a stupid trap. So, to sum it up, the labyrinth is just a different genre of game than the rest of POE, it got an annoying RNG lottery component and it feels like a big trade-to-win machine, which is probably one of the reasons a lot of elite meta players (profiting from carry services) defend it in the first place. Enjoy the damned labyrinth? Go play Tomb Raider...
Wraeclast is not Las Vegas! Stop the fucking RNG lottery! |
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" Replace all mobs in Labyrinth (except Argus/Izaro) with immobile "flask refill stations". What changed? Nothing. How do you farm Labyrinth? By killing mobs? NO! By getting keys and opening boxes. I have never once "enjoyed" running a Labyrinth. I like the acts, I like running maps, I like killing bosses and new league content. I love getting instagibbed by hexproof packs and I orgasm at the sight of an Abaxoth wrecking me in a t15 map. There is nothing greater than having my exp bar go from 99% back to 69% in a matter of minutes, except maybe that vaal'd guardian map with 8 mods, double/triple damage mods and enfeeble/tc. Labyrinth is a joke, yes. But it is a joke that is a chore, a chore that is semi-mandatory for a build these days, a chore that is simply a time sink without a challenge and a high chance to get forced to waste even more time on it when servers decide to kick you out or you get a lag spiked into a trap. It's literally the antithesis of fun, made to be a farming hot spot that's aimed at all the traders and flippers who want to have nothing to do with actual ARPG gameplay, those who just collect currency and 'get rich'. " Haha. You must be new to the game. PoE is indeed a great game, but there's no way I can say that GGG's balance team is doing a good job with a straight face. Actually, I doubt there even is a dedicated balance team at this point. |
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" Great explanation. Fully agree "War's over, soldier. You just don't know it yet. Everybody lost."
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" While it would certainly be in GGG's character to just sweep the problem under the rug by removing Ascendancy points from the lab, I'm really not sold on the idea. I'd rather change the lab itself to be fun for more people, rather than let those people pretend it doesn't exist. |
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" I've presented my proposal for what would make the Labyrinth itself more fun for me, but it would take a considerable overhaul of the system to adjust traps to follow the same rules as the rest of the game, rather than the mini-game's rule subset. This would both take a ton more development resources than creating an alternate way to obtain ascendancy classes, and would make people who love the current Labyrinth upset that they changed what they like. (post in the link, pasted into spoiler here)
Spoiler
There was a post in General Discussion at the end of January, where I posted these suggestions (made a few additions), IF I were to change the labyrinth (I've voiced my preferred solution many times, but these would make the actual Labyrinth more PoE-like, and less mini-game-like.) 1st Suggestion: Keep traps as a hazard, but not nearly as dangerous depending on character choices (skilltree, armor, evasion!, block, even curses. Make those choices have real impact on the traps. Regen helps, endurance charges help... flasks help... movement speed almost cheats the labyrinth. Depending on those changes, trap density in the Labyrinth maps could be far less, but still impact battles. (The Labyrinth would keep the "flavor" of trap-influenced danger) * Why not slow down traps with temporal chains or make them less dangerous with enfeeble?) * On that note, increase the mob density. Add Mobs that have AI and abilities that interact with traps, such as "tractor beams" and "push away" or "blackhole" effects. * Some mobs could even activate traps on their own, like a slam attack that pushes the spikes up from a nearby spike trap. * Maybe there are trap-building mobs, similar to the miners in act4 that dig up golems... but maybe they release roombas or spike pillars... maybe they only fix the "broken" traps that currently exist in the layouts. * Maybe add mobs that re-activate traps that you can turn off by flipping switches (means killing them is part of navigating a trap area, otherwise the traps turn back on while you're in the middle of them!) * Perhaps allow player attacks to freeze traps with ice attacks, or melt them with fire attacks, etc) * Include methods to disarm areas of traps (like finding a lever behind a false wall - guarded by stronger monsters) * Maybe let ice attacks freeze timed switches for doors. * Maybe add locked rooms that you need to full-clear of monsters to unlock and progress. --- 2nd Suggestion: I'm a fan of my initial suggestion for those who don't like the Labyrinth trap gameplay at all, but to keep the Labyrinth related to attaining the Ascendancy Points, if I had a choice in the matter: An alternative variation of the Labyrinth that is on 1 trapless map, with 3 locking boss chambers for the 3 Izaro battles (third battle might be ok to have the traps in his chamber - best to avoid that altogether if no changes are made to how traps interact with player stats). Waves of fodder mobs are fought between these boss rooms to refill flasks. The only reward is Ascendancy Points - no drops or enchants, etc. ---
Spoiler
3rd Suggestion: (more enjoyable Labyrinth-content if Izaro is retained for the challenge)
A quest-line based on Forsaken Masters to obtain Ascendancy Points (no labyrinth uniques or enchants, or any other loot). Haku for Marauders, Tora for Hunters, etc. You might need to get them to rank 5 for the first quest to gain the first 2 ascendancy points, rank 6 for the next 2, rank 7 for 2 more, and rank 8 for access to the final 2 points. Each quest linked to ascendancy points could be handled similarly to the "Daily Missions" on one-time maps that require a boss fight (this could even be my 2nd suggestion Izaro battle). I wouldn't limit them to once a day, but one entry per map. (Prevents death-zerging and town portals for flasks) Since Forsaken Master progress is shared in a league, yes, this would eventually make it easier to get the ascendancies for subsequent characters, similar to how finishing the trials are saved per league. Rotating dailies to speed up this progress won't make it any faster than getting a character to merciless Sarn for their first 6 points through regular labyrinths, and then joining parties in maps to get their uber trials for final points. (People love to spout out 5-15minute completion times for their Labyrinth runs taking less than an hour per character to get all their ascendancy points.) For only gaining Ascendancy Points, I think this is a pretty good alternative. Labyrinth Runners would still go for the Ascendancy points AND Enchants AND profit AND racing ladders. AND they can run it all earlier in the leagues. As a side note, I only play SSF, always have, MIGHT trade if they fix trade (make it in-game, and not requiring both people to be on at the same time). So, for me, no daily rotations to speed up progression, and I doubt I'd get even one master to rank 8 by the end of a 3 month league. Just so ya know. In addition, as in recent threads, I've mentioned that the MINIMUM change they should make to the Labyrinth, is waypoints after each Izaro battle (not into the room before him) - with the stipulation that using these waypoints disqualifies that run from the ladders and all drops/chests, only granting ascendancy points. EDIT: I'd also support the idea of master switches for each Labyrinth "map" guarded by an Argus-type mini-boss to disable all traps on that map, or open a trapless route to the next "map". That could be challenging and fun. Last edited by Zaludoz#6325 on Feb 7, 2018, 4:14:36 PM
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" _________________________________ " HaraldMKutscher and Anonymous1749704 thanks for voicing your opinion on the Labyrinth Tomb Raider like content of PoE. I've added your names to the list of people that have voiced similar opinions in this forum now at 974 account names long. Over 360 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 970 posters in support Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" Thank you Turtledove for drawing up this list, I'm pleased to be a part of it. If we want GGG to change something, we need a numerical base for our argumentation. That's btw also what I am currently trying to do against the RNG lottery (https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2086278). Enjoy the damned labyrinth? Go play Tomb Raider...
Wraeclast is not Las Vegas! Stop the fucking RNG lottery! |
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Just be happy they left the power creep in the game. Its a ninja nerf to the Lab and with half my builds Lab was easy this season.
Still boring and a waste of my time but not the emo filled "I quit" , it used to be. Last edited by Zalhan2#1986 on Feb 8, 2018, 9:56:01 AM
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" Haha. Same thing here. I went into the first trial at prison and nobody told me what to do and I definently wasnt ready for traps hitting 50% hp in hacknslash game, and I ran out of potions very quick and died. Let me tell my opinion on lab. Funny thing, I can really say that I dont hate it. Its a content. Its special and unique, there is no such content in the rest of the game, and its an additional engame activity that not everyone can afford to perfrom. Its designed well as for the thing it is and for its "functions". Lab fulfills its function, being challenging unique content. What is the main problem, is that this content is OBLIGATHORY for every character and this is such a huge fail from developers that I cant describe with appropriate words. Its obligathory for character development, for build to perfrom well, it is solidly required. I have no problems with some content in the game that I can skip, but when someone forces me to do the things that have nothing to do with hacknslash genre, to make my character work properly, this is total crap. I would not demand removing lab, objectively its okayish piece of content. I would free ascendancy point from it. Then remove all labs besides Uber lab, it would be one of endgame activities with no discomfort to any players who dont want to see certain non-hacknslash things in hacknslash game. Another way is tradable Ascendancy orb. There were many good ideas how to solve the problem and I hope developers will do something about it in the future. dead game bring back 3.13 Last edited by Tainted_Fate#2799 on Feb 8, 2018, 12:07:43 PM
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I don't understand this hate towards a certain aspect of the game. You do content you like doing or you play something else.
Labyrinth costs nothing until you reach the eternal lab, which you only "have to" complete once. Once you complete all 6 trials, you have at least 6 offerings ready to go, most likely more, and the chances that you actually have to spend currency to complete the eternal labyrinth successfully one single time is very low. There are people who like the labyrinth as it is so I don't see a reason to remove it, or change it drastically. I am one of those people. It's like asking the game servers to be brought down because you don't like the game. Why allow anyone else to enjoy what you don't, right? |
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