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Perq wrote:
Marketing the game as ethical free to play means you don't need to pay money to play the game. All of its parts.
They aren't lying, all content in the game is indeed available to everyone, there are no items, skills or raid bosses that are locked behind spending money at any point in time. I don't think it needs explaining how an unethical f2p game looks like, I'd say most of us have seen or played a fair deal of those.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
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Posted byraics#7540on Dec 14, 2017, 9:59:56 AM
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Perq wrote:
Marketing the game as ethical free to play means you don't need to pay money to play the game. All of its parts. There are no you should invest or you are expected to.
If you are expected to pay to play more than just a part of the game, it is called trial or demo. Trial is not a ethical free to play game.
But yeah, this wasn't even my point. Maybe some day someone will actually try addressing that, lel.
I highlighted and underlined what I think is the true bone of contention. One side disagrees that "All of its parts" is included in the ethical F2P position. I can go with either side depending on whether or not "All of its parts" is included or not. If it is included then I have to agree with you. My inclination though is that it should not be included.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Dec 14, 2017, 10:20:35 AM
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Dec 14, 2017, 10:20:05 AM
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sidtherat wrote:
I have no problem with paying for service
Where i see problem is hypocrisy. 'F2P game with ethical mtx' is a bs lie. F2P is true. Ethical mtx surely not.
I know some shiny members will say that you cannot 'win' nor you do not have to 'pay' but the truth is - playing with 4 tabs is a nightmare. It can be done. Sure. But saying that these tabs do not provide ingame advantage is a big fat lie..
Once you cut this hypocrisy and admit that there are p2w aspects - im fine with that.
This type of special tabs are indeed an ingame advantage, since they are mtx and the game is technically "free to play" that becomes a pay for power, an that is pay to win.
The prices are fine. PoE is a great game and 30€ for it is a great deal, it's just not entirely free to play.
"In this game you're just a cow being milked, not a human being entertained" - Kiss_Me_Quick
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Posted byIIPheXII#5639on Dec 14, 2017, 10:39:34 AM
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IIPheXII wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:
I have no problem with paying for service
Where i see problem is hypocrisy. 'F2P game with ethical mtx' is a bs lie. F2P is true. Ethical mtx surely not.
I know some shiny members will say that you cannot 'win' nor you do not have to 'pay' but the truth is - playing with 4 tabs is a nightmare. It can be done. Sure. But saying that these tabs do not provide ingame advantage is a big fat lie..
Once you cut this hypocrisy and admit that there are p2w aspects - im fine with that.
This type of special tabs are indeed an ingame advantage, since they are mtx and the game is technically "free to play" that becomes a pay for power, an that is pay to win.
The prices are fine. PoE is a great game and 30€ for it is a great deal, it's just not entirely free to play.
Oh I see, so your 4 stash tabs that your account came with are all incapable of holding maps, right? You also can't walk without infernal footprints and leap slam only works with gloom wings?
Yes, you're right. Absolutely P2W.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
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Posted byXavathos#5130on Dec 14, 2017, 10:47:33 AM
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Antaiseito wrote:
Wait, i know people here and on reddit say "The game only starts when you reach maps."
But in reality you can play the full story with any character without ever paying anything for it, no problem.
When does the story end? Act 10? You immediately get a quest to get into maps, where a story continues. You can argue its a different story, but you can do the same for the act5 -> act6 transition. For me, the story of the game includes Shaper and Elder.
Yes, you can do them without extra stash tabs, but it is going to be a lot easier to do them when you pay for ingame power (i.e. stash tabs). You do not gain damage or HP directly, but you gain the ability to store more things and sell more things, and thus eventually get a more powerful character. Stash tabs definitely speed up your progression, and I definitely would not have gotten 40/40 last league without extra stash tabs.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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Posted byChar1983#2680on Dec 14, 2017, 10:53:17 AM
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Xavathos wrote:
Oh I see, so your 4 stash tabs that your account came with are all incapable of holding maps, right? You also can't walk without infernal footprints and leap slam only works with gloom wings?
Yes, you're right. Absolutely P2W.
On standard right now, the 4 stash tabs can hold the new maps I own, yes - they fill about 2 tabs I guess (they cannot fit all the old maps). I still need more maps cause I constantly do not have the right map at hand. 2 copies of each map fill more than 2 stash tabs already. 3 copies of each map (which I consider reasonable long-term) fill more than 3 stash tabs. 1500 fusings required for 6link fill 52% of a stash tab. At that point, you have not yet stored any items, divination cards (more than a full stash tab if you have 1 of each), other currency, flasks, items you might want to sell, and so on.
Your polemic words do not change the facts. Paying for MTX gives real, tangible, in-game advantages. Now more than ever, and even more so once the next league hits.
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983#2680 on Dec 14, 2017, 11:00:42 AM
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Posted byChar1983#2680on Dec 14, 2017, 10:59:03 AM
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Char1983 wrote:
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Xavathos wrote:
Oh I see, so your 4 stash tabs that your account came with are all incapable of holding maps, right? You also can't walk without infernal footprints and leap slam only works with gloom wings?
Yes, you're right. Absolutely P2W.
On standard right now, the 4 stash tabs can hold the new maps I own, yes - they fill about 2 tabs I guess (they cannot fit all the old maps). I still need more maps cause I constantly do not have the right map at hand. 2 copies of each map fill more than 2 stash tabs already. 3 copies of each map (which I consider reasonable long-term) fill more than 3 stash tabs. 1500 fusings required for 6link fill 52% of a stash tab. At that point, you have not yet stored any items, divination cards (more than a full stash tab if you have 1 of each), other currency, flasks, items you might want to sell, and so on.
Your polemic words do not change the facts. Paying for MTX gives real, tangible, in-game advantages. Now more than ever, and even more so once the next league hits.
...and it's still not P2W. Never was, never will be. Let it go already. Want me to buy you a few tabs? If it's such a big deal to you...
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
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Posted byXavathos#5130on Dec 14, 2017, 11:03:33 AM
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Char1983 wrote:
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Xavathos wrote:
Oh I see, so your 4 stash tabs that your account came with are all incapable of holding maps, right? You also can't walk without infernal footprints and leap slam only works with gloom wings?
Yes, you're right. Absolutely P2W.
On standard right now, the 4 stash tabs can hold the new maps I own, yes - they fill about 2 tabs I guess (they cannot fit all the old maps). I still need more maps cause I constantly do not have the right map at hand. 2 copies of each map fill more than 2 stash tabs already. 3 copies of each map (which I consider reasonable long-term) fill more than 3 stash tabs. 1500 fusings required for 6link fill 52% of a stash tab. At that point, you have not yet stored any items, divination cards (more than a full stash tab if you have 1 of each), other currency, flasks, items you might want to sell, and so on.
Your polemic words do not change the facts. Paying for MTX gives real, tangible, in-game advantages. Now more than ever, and even more so once the next league hits.
it gives convenience rather than power
you realize you can make as many mules as you wish right?
I dont see any any key!
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Posted byk1rage#5701on Dec 14, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
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k1rage wrote:
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Char1983 wrote:
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Xavathos wrote:
Oh I see, so your 4 stash tabs that your account came with are all incapable of holding maps, right? You also can't walk without infernal footprints and leap slam only works with gloom wings?
Yes, you're right. Absolutely P2W.
On standard right now, the 4 stash tabs can hold the new maps I own, yes - they fill about 2 tabs I guess (they cannot fit all the old maps). I still need more maps cause I constantly do not have the right map at hand. 2 copies of each map fill more than 2 stash tabs already. 3 copies of each map (which I consider reasonable long-term) fill more than 3 stash tabs. 1500 fusings required for 6link fill 52% of a stash tab. At that point, you have not yet stored any items, divination cards (more than a full stash tab if you have 1 of each), other currency, flasks, items you might want to sell, and so on.
Your polemic words do not change the facts. Paying for MTX gives real, tangible, in-game advantages. Now more than ever, and even more so once the next league hits.
it gives convenience rather than power
you realize you can make as many mules as you wish right?
Exactly. But even if all of that was not true and you only had 4 tabs forever, it's still not P2W. Because it's just simply not power that you're buying. A player with 4 tabs vs a player with 1000 tabs will reach Shaper in exactly the same time.
The term "P2W" is used way too widely these days, subtracting from the places where it should be getting the attention it deserves. Right EA?
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.
'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
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Posted byXavathos#5130on Dec 14, 2017, 11:12:04 AM
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Don't be a fucking hoarder or spam the chat everytime someone gives away free low level maps. This is not map starved 2.x
If you want to discuss p2w pull out the whole premium stash tab trading shit.
Premium Tab > Currency Tab > Map Tab.
150p still too much though.
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Posted byBananaplasm#4174on Dec 14, 2017, 11:20:06 AM
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