YOU MORONS CRYING FOR AUCTION HOUSE DIDNT SEE D3

"

MasterAxe wrote:

"

de99ial wrote:

The most liked by me trading system was in Hellgate London. Like AH but ONLY for In Game Currency.

OH how i miss that game. It was one of the Greats for sure until it died due to bad management. =/


One thing i really liked was the item mailing system.

Yeah it was fun. I own that game in BOX as single player and sometimes i back to it. Its just fun.

After Global i payed with my brother who lives in UK but after next changes we dropped out (i before Tokyo, he after it). To "KoreanGrindingMeatMachine" after that.

But trading was awesome!

Rough statistics:

1700000th forum thread ending with 80% of players in pointing there is a problem with trading in PoE.

5 millions users left the game because of it after two days.

50 millions after reaching cruel diff.

100 millions after a month.

80 millions players won't even try PoE because of it's trading reputation ( wich is almost worst than the d3's AH one ).

Each time Chris use the social interaction thing in a video 5000 fish, are dying.

More than 10000 RMT website around POE. ( i wishe it would be a false statistics sadly did some multilanguage search and it's fucking horrible ).

15000000 players woke up each day at 6am to start trading during 23 hours.

500 just forgot to sleep to trade more.

Some players even have smartphone app because missing a trade would be the end of the world.

1 millions of players lost their work because of trading in PoE.



Only 5% of userbase actualy killed a monster after reaching level 25. Because 95% others started to flip at this level.

4 players actualy have social interaction trought trading each days.

Chris said eventualy they will look at trading issues with Chuck Norris in 2050 when Virtual reality Fishing rods will offer an actual way to get real fish.


I came here to play an ARPG. I ended with a Buisness Degree.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

MasterAxe wrote:

Oh, am i supposed to feel sorry for you because you do not talk to people in game, or listen to their issues and frustrations, which many times just lead them to quitting? Nope i do not think so.

I talk a lot to people, but I do not tend to speak for EVERYONE, as you do. A LOT of complaints goes towards NOT BEING ABLE TO BUY WHEN THEY WANT TO BUY. And only that.

And that was covered in my list of reasons, still not seeing your damn issue, I covered most all the reasons from people i hear from general channels, guild, and friends.

"

MasterAxe wrote:

still not seeing your damn issue

My issue? If they make trade too easy, too simple and a one-click interaction, trade will become even more mandatory than it already is. It becomes the center of all balance, making the in-game progression a worse experience.

As of now, it is possible to reach very high tiers of maps with gear that the game drops for you. I think the balance of what you can achieve in a certain time period with what the game offers you, is in a good state right now. It's naive to think that this balance will remain, if they made trade a one-click interaction, where all items in the game is accessible in a second - without the seller having to be online.

I don't know if you disagree, neglect to understand or just don't give a fuck because you buy everything all the time, but everyone that don't buy everything all the time will have a worse experience the easier trade gets.

Trade is the most powerful tool you have in PoE. Why shouldn't it require some effort? Why should you be able to trade for everything without putting some time into it? Why should everything be accessible for you all the time?

I play SSF.

It fixed the problem for me.

"

Unquietheart wrote:

ARPGs are a particular kind of environment.

They are a (fairly static) progression curve, intended to offer a fairly consistent challenge at any particular point along that curve.

In addition, they provide rewards: Levels, passive node points, loot, etc. The rewards are intentionally incremental. They allow the player to move further along the progression curve, thus facing greater challenge, and obtaining greater reward.

The speed of the rewards must be managed in order to support the viability of the progression curve.

The goal is to provide the player with a sense of accomplishment for overcoming the hurdles the progression curve represents.


The key issue is what's referred to as Sourcing. How will rewards be sourced? The developers MUST control the speed at which those rewards are sourced. If you don't control the sourcing speed, you don't have a game. While this is frequently true in games, it is especially true in ARPG environments.

The degree to which you allow trading, the degree to which you facilitate a player driven trading system directly impacts sourcing.

Any trading system will make sourcing easier. If (when) sourcing via trading becomes easier than sourcing via playing the game, then you have successfully defeated the purpose of an ARPG. This was the trap D3 fell into. The RMT portion of that certain exacerbated the issue, but even without the RMT, the AH system had the end result of defeating the primary purpose of the game: The Hunt for Loot.

I'm not in favor of an AH system in this type of game (an ARPG).

Nice post!

Trading seems to revolve around several distinct axis:
*The very hard to get, very rare unique items like HH etc.;
*The not so rare, but useful unique items that now cost between 25 Chaos and 10 Exalts;
*The rare items, crafted or not that are end game viable and desired;
*All the rest

Perhaps each category of items needs its own process. Price point is one way to differentiate both items and process. Unique, found rare, crafted rare, etc is another.

For example, an automated process could be set for any item under 25 Chaos where every item must have a price and trades would happen without direct player interaction.

For items priced over the auto buy threshold, a system similar to the current one could be used and sellers could opt in or out of auto selling their items. Again for this group, every item would have a price. A check box could change an item from "auto sell" to "contact me" or vice versa.

The top category of items might be grouped/listed separately and have a "no price" listing option. That might have a price floor of 30 exalts.

Such a system would provide lots of choices for both buyers and sellers. Low value sales could happen frequently and easily. The mid range desirable items could be sold/bought on auto or not. Buyers could search by auto or not

I'd like a built-in system that fixed the 2 major problems I have with trading: Price Fixers and AFKs. If there was a system that stopped both of those, I think I'd be ok with the current system. As it stands, I get tired of messaging 50 people who are AFK, or having to scroll through 20+ price fixers on normal items. Not to mention the people who have access to their own Indexers and manage to not only price fix, but suck up all the poor noob's items that were listed under their fake prices. There needs to be a way, that when you list the item, you have to sell the item for that price. There can be a grace period of like 5 min before it lists so if you screw up you can take it off. And, a method to get gear from offline/afk people. A master or something in your hideout. I fail to see how these 2 methods built into the game would do anything but HELP.

"

ChanBalam wrote:

Nice post!

Trading seems to revolve around several distinct axis:
*The very hard to get, very rare unique items like HH etc.;
*The not so rare, but useful unique items that now cost between 25 Chaos and 10 Exalts;
*The rare items, crafted or not that are end game viable and desired;
*All the rest

Perhaps each category of items needs its own process. Price point is one way to differentiate both items and process. Unique, found rare, crafted rare, etc is another.

For example, an automated process could be set for any item under 25 Chaos where every item must have a price and trades would happen without direct player interaction.

For items priced over the auto buy threshold, a system similar to the current one could be used and sellers could opt in or out of auto selling their items. Again for this group, every item would have a price. A check box could change an item from "auto sell" to "contact me" or vice versa.

The top category of items might be grouped/listed separately and have a "no price" listing option. That might have a price floor of 30 exalts.

Such a system would provide lots of choices for both buyers and sellers. Low value sales could happen frequently and easily. The mid range desirable items could be sold/bought on auto or not. Buyers could search by auto or not

There are lots of systems that could potentially be implemented.

The issue remains: How will they impact the viability of the progression curve that is the core of the gameplay?

Developers need to balance conflicting elements. In addition, these elements vary from player to player. In particular: Frustration at inability to proceed (along the progression curve) vs sense of accomplishment at having overcome a challenge.

Winning is what players want. But if it's too easy to win, then the game lacks depth, and the player base becomes transitory and disinterested. Players aren't developers, most of them don't really understand the game systems. Most players think "frustration" is universally bad.

But that's too simplistic. Frustration is a vital element in providing the sense of accomplishment which what players really want.

Most players who want easier trade are trying to manage frustration (in some form or other). The game systems that would be attacked by this relief of frustration are transparent to the player. The viability of the basic progression curve MUST be managed by developers. The first tool in their tool box is drop rate frequency. They will employ that when necessary.



There are games where an AH system works quite well. Most of the game's economy and most of the items that are used in-game in EVE online are produced by players. Some players are raiders, some are miners, some are merchants who buy and sell, but there are also players who are producers, who spend their time running factories. EVE is of course an MMO, where Auction House systems tend to work quite well.


Further reading: https://www.wired.com/2013/09/diablo-auction-house/