An alternative for ascendency points.

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鬼殺し wrote:

So...really, all you did was throw a bit of a temper tantrum.

*hugs again*

Thats the tl;dr of all people that complain about the lab. No wonder why GGG doens't have an open mind about changing it.

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鬼殺し wrote:

You know you're not getting your way on this one. GGG are committed to the Labyrinth as the source of Ascendancy -- all that voicework, all that lore. It's just not going away.

You make some fair points - I just don't see this particular point as much of an obstacle for GGG providing an alternative.

Acendancy should stay at the end of the Lab too, just not exclusively. It's all dandy as long as Izaro doesn't know someone stole his secret. ;)
All the voicework and lore could stay intact. We just need someone who figured out how to call upon the powers of that altar too, built another one someplace else maybe. GGG have creative guys on the team - they could figure it out.

They are not (yet) comfortable with players getting APs without them tackling the obstacle that was designed along with it though.

I believe they can still get around to it. That's why these threads need to keep popping up. I played this game for years with desync! If people had "wisened up" and accepted that desync was unfixable (and part of what made this game hardcore, some claimed) I'd probably still have to play with it.

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Xeledon2132 wrote:

"

鬼殺し wrote:

You know you're not getting your way on this one. GGG are committed to the Labyrinth as the source of Ascendancy -- all that voicework, all that lore. It's just not going away.

You make some fair points - I just don't see this particular point as much of an obstacle for GGG providing an alternative.

Acendancy should stay at the end of the Lab too, just not exclusively. It's all dandy as long as Izaro doesn't know someone stole his secret. ;)
All the voicework and lore could stay intact. We just need someone who figured out how to call upon the powers of that altar too, built another one someplace else maybe. GGG have creative guys on the team - they could figure it out.

They are not (yet) comfortable with players getting APs without them tackling the obstacle that was designed along with it though.

I believe they can still get around to it. That's why these threads need to keep popping up. I played this game for years with desync! If people had "wisened up" and accepted that desync was unfixable (and part of what made this game hardcore, some claimed) I'd probably still have to play with it.

Comparing a technical problem to a design issue isn't going to net you the results you are looking for.

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

These threads get so tiring...

mainly because they barely can give a real possible alternative... ^^

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

Don't do Lab on shitty days? Today's layout, if you go the right route, has a whopping 2 Trap Gauntlets + Gold Key Trap Gauntlet.

Even as you check the layout on poelabs, you gather no info about the complexity of each 'room' etc (areas are still random generated on each run, IDK about traps and other relevant room details). So its probably 'easy' to make use of a good base layout after the first runthrough, but there's no knowing before this first try.

And, like with other situations: depending on the (missing) OP-ness of your build, especially the final fights can be a huge matter of time: things can go very worse if it happens to need 'a bit' too long...

"

Comparing a technical problem to a design issue isn't going to net you the results you are looking for.

The situations are very much alike:

GGG realise there is an issue, but GGG are reluctant to take action.
This reluctancy is understandable in both cases since fixing the issue would consume resources that could be utilised elsewhere and they don't see the situation as grave initially as a part of their player base does.

They may still come to see this as I do - or they may come to see they are comfortable with part of their player base seeing thing different and stick to their vision. All I'm saying is: The situations are somewhat similar.

Also this "technical problem" was a design decision too - not an unforseen consequence of how they did things. They just thought occasional desync was preferable to lag. The unforseen part was that so many people disagreed on their assessment.

E: so many typos

So what is your fucking alternative?

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Mr_Cee wrote:

"

_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

These threads get so tiring...

mainly because they barely can give a real possible alternative... ^^

"

_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

Don't do Lab on shitty days? Today's layout, if you go the right route, has a whopping 2 Trap Gauntlets + Gold Key Trap Gauntlet.

Even as you check the layout on poelabs, you gather no info about the complexity of each 'room' etc (areas are still random generated on each run, IDK about traps and other relevant room details). So its probably 'easy' to make use of a good base layout after the first runthrough, but there's no knowing before this first try.

And, like with other situations: depending on the (missing) OP-ness of your build, especially the final fights can be a huge matter of time: things can go very worse if it happens to need 'a bit' too long...

That information comes with experience or you know look at the videos if you feel like its that big of a deal, god forbid there be anything complex or challenging to do in this game.

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StDrakeX wrote:

So what is your fucking alternative?

I find that an equally daunting question to ask as "what is your fix for desync then?" is. With desync the answer would have been: Other online games can do it without desync (e.g. MOBAs) - adopt their model. That is what GGG did.

I guess with Ascendancy the answer would have to be: Other rewards in this very game don't require me to do something this antifun - make the Ascendancy alternative more like the rest of the game.

I don't pretend I have all the answers. I realise that Ascendancy is the single most powerful reward in the game and that just making it part of the normal progression through the game would feel wrong from our perspective. So as I see it, it would still have to be behind optional content. Maps come to mind, maybe mixed with a special prophecy chain. That way you could achieve Ascendancy but much later than someone who doesn't mind doing the Lab. You wouldn't get the other rewards the Lab offers either - something for everybody.

Still that is just my first idea. You know who is much better at coming up with solutions for PoE? GGG is! Also their solution is the only one that matters. ;)
From my point of view they'd just have to get around to making it a priority. And if they don't I will not start a riot. I will however keep voicing my opinion that I think it should eventually be made a priority - nothing wrong with that, is it? ;)

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鬼殺し wrote:

Feel better after that little outburst, Hyskoa? Great. *hug*

You know you're not getting your way on this one....

When a part of the game is depressingly shit to play, I'd like to share that annoyance with the rest of the community to even it out a bit, fair is fair. I feel bad, now everybody feels bad/annoyed.

And since someone asked how to handle the labyrinth, just call the boots/gloves/helmet enchants the ascension enchants and ascendency points something else. Tada, no more need to combine both.
Just have the lab have some other type of loot that people want(what about unique leaguestones?)
Hell, I might just make a build that specifically suited for the lab experience.

But forcing EVERY... SINGLE.... F*****.... BUILD to go through that brown stain of a user experience FOUR TIMES is asking too much. Some builds just aren't made for it and should be given an alternative approach that's more in tune with an arpg.

In short: Taketh thee "hardcore experience" and burneth it. Twice.
(I had something else here, but apparently the entire forum is filled with extremely delicate flowers, the mod team especially. Who wilt away at the mere mention of naughty words.)

I come to these threads, and walk away shaking my head at how forgetful people are. It's like only the comments in one thread are considered in the context of the discussion, and the entire argument has to be made anew each time, and the solutions presented again and again.

I really don't get it. Either people are really forgetful, or they want to ignore what has already been said. I mean, the main Labyrinth thread has listed viable alternatives (some not so viable), to gaining the Ascendancy points outside the labyrinth. Some ways keep it tied to Labyrinth lore, while removing the tedious gameplay aspects, while other ways create new ARPG methods to gain them that have nothing to do with traps.

By now, people know the 2 solutions I've put forth, right? Both would be acceptable to me, both address the main issues brought up by nearly everyone who complains about the Labyrinth (except it's too hard, that one may get worse with my solutions - might be harder)


It's not a situation where it's all or nothing. The points don't have to only come from the Labyrinth to satisfy lore. It's great that that is one place you can get them. The lore does not prevent multiple ways. Besides, the Labyrinth would still be successful content for those who like farming it for the other rewards long after they ascend, as proven by their current activity.

Providing an alternative non-labyrinth method is not going to make the labyrinth fall into disuse as some may fear. There is no losing face here. I'd respect the dev team more, if they provide more users with a more fun alternative, understanding that they went a little off course thinking everyone would put up with the labyrinth like they have with everything else they dislike about the game.