Is the root problem that the Labyrinth is "Optional"?

People will climb The Sceptre of God and kill Dominus, for no reward, because it is required of the story.

People will battle with Doedre, Maligaro, & Shavronne just to kill Malachai, because it is required of the story. People beat them in Merciless even when there really was no reason or benefit at all to do so, because it finishes the story.

There is no motivation from the story to conquer the Labyrinth.


No area in the game is similar (mechanic-wise). It feels like pure optional side content.


However the rewards from this content are optional only in theory.


People "know" that this came from "optional content."
GGG moved the labyrinth into the core game keeping it as "optional content."

People can ignore corrupted areas.
People can ignore Master's Quests.
People can ignore prophecies.
People can ignore strongboxes even.
People could ignore any (maybe even all) of this "optional content" and it would still be less game effecting then ignoring the Labyrinth.

However Corrupted areas, Master's Quests, Prophecies, & Strongboxes all play like the rest of the game so people forget that they are "Optional" at all.


The Labyrinth does not play like the rest of the game however hence the separation of it from the rest of the game is very wide. The skills/character build needed in the labyrinth do not benefit the rest of the game.


The Labyrinth is optional story-wise.
The Labyrinth is optional skill-wise.
The Labyrinth is everything but optional when optimizing a character.


I remember when the Labyrinth came out. It was never released as "optional content." The Labyrinth was added to the core and Perdanus league was the optional content. Hence the Labyrinth was intended as a direct core update from the start. Like finishing Act III, like Act IV, like this up coming 3.0.0 update.


If Cadiro (at least as an NPC) made it into the core game. If the mechanics in the labyrinth showed up in in story (not map) areas outside the labyrinth. (This is not a support of such an action). Then it would have felt like the direct update to the core game that it actually was.


In summary:
The game gives no motivation to perform the labyrinth (outside of rewards).

Character optimization for the labyrinth be counter to character optimization outside the labyrinth.

The Labyrinth was a core update handled like an optional update.

This is what leads to large divide between people liking and hating the labyrinth.


Aside: I'm in the camp that likes the labyrinth hence I wish GGG had handled it differently to make it better received.

Developers never treated lab like an optional content. Nor the players.

I didn't get the point of the thread, probably tired.

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torturo wrote:

Developers never treated lab like an optional content. Nor the players.

I didn't get the point of the thread, probably tired.

I think Chris was just a little unclear. In Q+A part two he writes:

"

Chris wrote:

We're worried about the slippery slope of players wanting the rewards from a system without engaging in that system (although we do understand that Ascendancy classes have been so successful that they are no longer considered rewards but instead intrinsic parts of your character). I am sure we will continue to discuss this and related topics.

It kind of implies that Ascendancy Classes were originally designed as an "add on" to your character where you have a choice of challenge -> reward.

Again, it could be Chris being unclear, but I really don't want them to move toward ACs being practically free, like if they're bound to Act Map bosses. Pure powercreep, and powerups without justification just feel weird, like turning a game into a movie. I guarantee you a kid who orders her maid to construct a Lego model doesn't have as much fun as a kid who constructs the Lego model herself.

Cadiro has nothing to really do with the lab (I mean lore wise maybe, but not like in the actual sense of needing cadiro in the core game for the lab to make sense)


The lab already is a part of the game, you have 6 trials you do per difficulty and another 6 map level ones for the uber lab. Its embedded into the game, the only optional part is that it isn't required to progress. For that I think GGG made a mistake, they should have required people to do it and therefore better showcase how its a part of the game.

Its because of the ability or the choice that GGG gives you to decide when to do it that people perceive it as a chore and therefore don't enjoy it. Effectively GGG increased the required time it takes to get to endgame and well people don't like that.

However, with that additional time it takes (which isn't that long if you have half a brain) you get a massive power spike in terms of power that makes lower end content much easier then it was really balanced for.

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The_Reporter wrote:

They fully realize that most normal minded players/donators for various reasons, loathe it.

Now, now, don't tell me you really believe content like that would spend more than a month in game. You used 'most' and 'loathe' in conjunction there, that's way too strong, even if we're being ultra pessimistic about it. Or optimistic, depends which way you look at it.

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The_Reporter wrote:

GGG isn't going to showcase the lab/trials portion of this game OR retrofit it as a passage between difficulties and/or the story line.

Why?

Because they know it's poorly done and aren't proud of it. They fully realize that most normal minded players/donators for various reasons, loathe it.

GGG knows that if they shoehorned it all in 'officially' as a story line prerequisite in it's current state, it would spell the end of PoE (as a money maker)

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1824790

I don't think they think anything of the sort, and if you take even a small second to think about what you said, you'd realize that most players don't care either way, while a small number hate it, and a small number love it. Most people however realize that it's 99% the same content as the rest of the game, and 1% traps.

In my opinion, the root problem with the Labyrinth is that it is boring and irritating game play. If it was kill-monster-get-loot game play like the rest of PoE then it would be fine with little complaint.

The root problem is players expectations.
The rest of the entire game is just blowing up shit as fast as possible in relatively small zones.
Enter a long series of zones combined with mechanics outside of killable mobs. There is some backlash from players who enjoy the comfort of the 'same old same old'.
Personally i find such ppl narrowminded, and have never heard a decent argument against the lab. It seems to me opponents of the lab dont even understand why they dont like it, so they invented convoluted reasoning which all boils down to 'i dont like it'.

Normal players dont sit on the forums all day whining.