Is the root problem that the Labyrinth is "Optional"?

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Fruz wrote:

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raics wrote:

Say, anyone tried the lightning bolt dodging in FFX?

Ok that one was just too much, the only thing that I didn't like in FFX I think, honestly.

Haha, right? Didn't mind the blitzball quest myself which is the other major complaint but that one was sick in the head. Yeah, 200, way, way too much.

It's kinda similar to lab if you think about it, you need uber weapons to do uber bosses and uber weapon quests are a bit out there.

Well, not really .... all ultimate weapons had their mini games, and that was not new in FF series either.

And most of the lab is like the rest of the game, it is just punctuated by other elements that you cannot overlevel and just ignore.
Plus some of the ultimate weapons were not necessarily the best ones in all situations.

Granted, though preparations for uber bosses are typically long in most FF games, including weapons or not. The Japanese just love their uber bosses and brutal minigames.

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raics wrote:

Granted, though preparations for uber bosses are typically long in most FF games, including weapons or not. The Japanese just love their uber bosses and brutal minigames.

Although FFX didn't really require them, you could craft super weapons that are almost that strong and after all you are not able to deal more than 99,999 damage per hit. So they are not really compareable to the lab in general, maybe to the Uber Lab.

Also those minigames mostly were completly different from the actual game, the lab is not. It is normal path of exile with a trap every once in a while.

Sure, it just fills a similar role, you don't need the lab to finish the game but you do need it for optional content. Unfortunately, optional content in PoE is larger than main content :)

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sidtherat wrote:

i hope you are better at reading trough PR statements than that

what companies SAY is different to what companies DO

He flat out proved that your statement was false.

Also, when you are attributing motivations and opinions to me and others you're also usually wrong.

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sidtherat wrote:

first: it is entirely possible that GGG is pretty aware that certain player demographic does not like part of their game. and they EXPECT them to leave.

some of you might cry 'blasphemy, no business ever wants their customers to leave!'. o'rly? why certain brands aim at certain (usually higher) tiers of society? because it is better - for them - to focus on one demographic instead of catering to everyone.

Take a look at some of the supporter tags posting here. No, it never occurred to me that GGG wants these people to leave and to keep the hardcore kiddies that contribute little to nothing financially to the game.

I'm no Harvard economist, but it would appear to me that doing that would be a great way to put yourself out of business quite quickly.

Another poster suggested games are "art", which in a way they are, but not art in the Ayn Rand sense of the word, but rather art in the tv show sense of the word, where shitty ratings = cancelled.

It sounds to me like an argument for the whole "elite aristocracy" thing that World Of Warcraft had going. Wrong game.

I don't recall seeing or reading GGG going after that particular effect and in an arpg it doesn't make sense to why it would. Arpgs are made to be solo play games or group play games. The "Bling factor" comes from mtx and being able to get to higher content through knowledge, skill, and a little luck by hack and slash.

GGG experimented away from hack and slash with the lab. I can appreciate that, and get behind it, but I think it needs to be split out from the core game and currently with ascension being gated behind it, it's not.

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ewolow wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

first: it is entirely possible that GGG is pretty aware that certain player demographic does not like part of their game. and they EXPECT them to leave.

some of you might cry 'blasphemy, no business ever wants their customers to leave!'. o'rly? why certain brands aim at certain (usually higher) tiers of society? because it is better - for them - to focus on one demographic instead of catering to everyone.

Take a look at some of the supporter tags posting here. No, it never occurred to me that GGG wants these people to leave and to keep the hardcore kiddies that contribute little to nothing financially to the game.

I'm no Harvard economist, but it would appear to me that doing that would be a great way to put yourself out of business quite quickly.

Yet GGG is here, and has been launched by supporting hardcore players, not by casual players that wanted a pair of wings to make their character more shiny.
Now recently, they have been gathering more and more casuals, but casuals alone would not have allowed them to start the game to begin with.

The fact that many people paid several thousands of dollars at once to create uniques just speaks volumes, for example.

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ewolow wrote:

I'm no Harvard economist, but it would appear to me that doing that would be a great way to put yourself out of business quite quickly.

tell me when BMW goes out of business. and they are not even trying hard. Prada, Apple or Channel - they all have precisely set target demographics and they will do more or less subtle tricks to make everyone else go look for their wares/services somewhere else.

luxury brands are very clear example but same applies to such mundane business like bars. they set the 'beer' prices higher than rest of the street so the loud and not-so-loaded crowd of students goes somewhere else while customers that do not really mind 10% or 20% price difference will stay and invite their also better of friends

if you think that GGG is trying to please everybody..

oh. and if you are so displeased that you bring the monetary vector into the discussion. guess what - your words mean nothing. your wallet spoke - you have all the latest packs so the lab is not impacting your spending. and you threaten to leave? you would have left long ago if that was the problem. you are here, you are paying, chances of you leaving are rather slim

as long as you pay - and you do - there is no problem :) and if you do leave - well, they have your money anyway

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sidtherat wrote:

tell me when BMW goes out of business. and they are not even trying hard. Prada, Apple or Channel - they all have precisely set target demographics and they will do more or less subtle tricks to make everyone else go look for their wares/services somewhere else.

luxury brands are very clear example but same applies to such mundane business like bars. they set the 'beer' prices higher than rest of the street so the loud and not-so-loaded crowd of students goes somewhere else while customers that do not really mind 10% or 20% price difference will stay and invite their also better of friends

So you are trying to equate POE to a luxury brand car or handbag? How many handbags do Prada give away for free? More importantly, how many BMW cars are given away free?

I've owned BMW and Acura. It's a very different experience at the dealership getting an oil change or work done. Do you know why that is?

Do Prada or BMW owners have higher or lower expectations and standards on the products they own? Not sure you really thought this argument out fully.

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sidtherat wrote:

if you think that GGG is trying to please everybody..

Did it ever occur to you that you may be the demographic they are not aiming for?

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sidtherat wrote:

oh. and if you are so displeased that you bring the monetary vector into the discussion. guess what - your words mean nothing. your wallet spoke - you have all the latest packs so the lab is not impacting your spending. and you threaten to leave? you would have left long ago if that was the problem. you are here, you are paying, chances of you leaving are rather slim

So let's ask a question: What is more likely? That someone with a history of buying multiple $100+ supporter packs will buy more, or the person that buys a single $30 pack or no pack at all will buy $100+ supporter packs in the future.

Fact of life: Money talks, bullshit walks.

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sidtherat wrote:

as long as you pay - and you do - there is no problem :) and if you do leave - well, they have your money anyway

There is a difference between realized and unrealized capital. Like I said, people that spend money are likely to do so again, whereas those that do not, most likely will not.

It's not a matter of one having a priority over the other or that supporters get special treatment. They shouldn't, but it's just asinine to suggest that GGG wants them to go away and even more ridiculous when people suggest their input holds no value or lesser value than theirs.