Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

"

Turbodevil wrote:

Soooo the reasons blade flurry is OP are:
- claws
- Scourge
- Poison
- AoE

Guys, sry but it's getting ridiculous. It's actually pretty easy. Focus:

Blade Flurry's damage is 2-3x times higher than other melee skills.

Other melee skills deal around 100-200% weapon dps.

Blade Flurry deals around 200-400% weapon dps (depending on how many charges you use and how exactly they work).

Blade Flurry is op because it deals 2-3 times damage of other melee skills.

You can forbid claws, make it unusable with poison and force people to support it with melee splash for AoE and it will still be OP because it deals 2-3 times damage of other melee skills.

If you watch any non-scourge video of blade flurry doing shaper the dps is pretty much the same as every caster build (BV, firestorm, whispering ice, etc).

And again you could do the same thing that build does using viper strike or dual strike or flicker strike or literally any melee gem that claws can use.

So yes, it's an issue with the combination of those things all triple-double dipping on bonuses, not with BF specifically. Use common fucking sense.

BF does 2-3x the damage of those gems because THOSE GEMS ARE SHIT. You see anyone using fucking dual strike on ladders? No you don't? Then why would you suggest that BF be nerfed to be the same as those shitty gems nobody uses? If you're making a case to buff the damage of those shitty melee gems, you'll get no argument from me.

My answer: make BF comparable to useable, good caster gems

Your answer: make BF comparable to shitty melee gems nobody uses

I think it's pretty obvious which solution is the correct one

1. Stop swearing.

2. Yea, I saw EQ on ladders. Which, surprise surprise, is highest dps skill for melee despite it penalizes attack speed and, guess what, Blade Flurry still deals much more dps.

3. And what the hell is this 'watch video' 'meta' 'my fav streamer had this gear and killed boss in x seconds' thing everyone keep talking about.

Skill A deals X dps
Skill B deals 2X dps
Skill B is op

It is that simple. If you double dps, it's going to be too strong in comparison with everything else.

"

Turbodevil wrote:

1. Stop swearing.

2. Yea, I saw EQ on ladders. Which, surprise surprise, is highest dps skill for melee despite it penalizes attack speed and, guess what, Blade Flurry still deals much more dps.

3. And what the hell is this 'watch video' 'meta' 'my fav streamer had this gear and killed boss in x seconds' thing everyone keep talking about.

Skill A deals X dps
Skill B deals 2X dps
Skill B is op

It is that simple. If you double dps, it's going to be too strong in comparison with everything else.

Right, it couldn't possibly be that Skill A is doing TOO LITTLE damage. No, that thought never occured to you, we must nerf skill B. Nevermind that skill C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K are all caster gems dealing the same damage as skill B, and that skills L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, and S are all shitty melee gems doing the same damage as skill A but they deal skill-B levels of damage with that claw and ascendancy combo. No, we must nerf skill B (the only melee gem doing the same damage as all those other caster gems).

Bear in mind my proposal DOES include a nerf to BF. And then bear in mind that those claws will still do the same damage using 5-10 other melee gems if you don't use a combined solution and opt to just nerf BF.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

If you watch any non-scourge video of blade flurry doing shaper the dps is pretty much the same as every caster build (BV, firestorm, whispering ice, etc).

And again you could do the same thing that build does using viper strike or dual strike or flicker strike or literally any melee gem that claws can use.

So yes, it's an issue with the combination of those things all triple-double dipping on bonuses, not with BF specifically. Use common fucking sense.

BF does 2-3x the damage of those gems because THOSE GEMS ARE SHIT. You see anyone using fucking dual strike on ladders? No you don't?

BF has the same damage as Blade Vortex, EVERYTHING IS FINE!!
That would be nuf said, but lets keep going.

And you could do the same using skills that have .... 4 or 5 times less range ?
Very valid comparison, good job there, brilliant thinking.

Damage is all there is to a skill gem, thank you for such awesome insight on PoE's balance.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Then why would you suggest that BF be nerfed to be the same as those shitty gems nobody uses?

Because if yo uforget about meta for nanosecond you will realize skill gems are balanced against each other and their dps is meant to be more or less the same at entry level. It's solid point of reference. EQ can get away with having more dps than that because it cripples you because of aftershock delay. You need to lower youar attack speed, have less duration and whatever - it's tradeoff and it's fun. If you suddenly release gem which deals double that damage the first logical question is: 'why? does it cripple my character o ranything to justify that dps?'. In theory standing still is crippling, until you realise it's still better dps even when you move around rather than channeling. Oh, and it is range. And AoE is build in. And as I recently learned (thanks Boem!) double dips on DoTs. So it's rain of benefits on to p of double dps actually. So I say nerf the dps to be in line with other melee skills.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

ldn't possibly be that Skill A is doing TOO LITTLE damage. No, that thought never occured to you, we must nerf skill B

*sigh* yes, in this case we must nerf skill B because it's OP, everyone talks how OP it is and even you admitted it. Yes. Nerf skill B is good. If skill name starts with 'B', nerfing it is probably good idea.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

Turbodevil wrote:

Soooo the reasons blade flurry is OP are:
- claws
- Scourge
- Poison
- AoE

Guys, sry but it's getting ridiculous. It's actually pretty easy. Focus:

Blade Flurry's damage is 2-3x times higher than other melee skills.

Other melee skills deal around 100-200% weapon dps.

Blade Flurry deals around 200-400% weapon dps (depending on how many charges you use and how exactly they work).

Blade Flurry is op because it deals 2-3 times damage of other melee skills.

You can forbid claws, make it unusable with poison and force people to support it with melee splash for AoE and it will still be OP because it deals 2-3 times damage of other melee skills.

If you watch any non-scourge video of blade flurry doing shaper the dps is pretty much the same as every caster build (BV, firestorm, whispering ice, etc).

Thank god, it is pretty much as broken as bladevortex, but it's totally not OP, and doesn't need to get nerfed at all. Because bladevortex is perfectly balanced, right? That is what you're saying here, right?

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

So yes, it's an issue with the combination of those things all triple-double dipping on bonuses, not with BF specifically. Use common fucking sense.

A skill that does the same thing that OP bladevortex does, without abusing this triple-double dipping, is OP and needs a nerf. Use some common sense.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

BF does 2-3x the damage of those gems because THOSE GEMS ARE SHIT. You see anyone using fucking dual strike on ladders? No you don't? Then why would you suggest that BF be nerfed to be the same as those shitty gems nobody uses? If you're making a case to buff the damage of those shitty melee gems, you'll get no argument from me.

Dual strike doesn't have AOE, so it rarely, if ever gets used (Though I remember Lighty playing it once or twice). Apples and berries once again.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

My answer: make BF comparable to useable, good caster gems

Your answer: make BF comparable to shitty melee gems nobody uses

I think it's pretty obvious which solution is the correct one

You just said that (without scourges) BF is on par with bladevortex. Bladevortex is OP. My answer is, Flurry needs a nerf. Bladevortex needs a nerf as well, but that's beside the point. Flurry as is now is OP. By saying it's on par with Bladevortex, you've said nothing other than Flurry deserves a nerf. Finally you made to the point that I am taling about all the time: Flurry OP, so flurry needs a nerf.

"

Turbodevil wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Then why would you suggest that BF be nerfed to be the same as those shitty gems nobody uses?

Because if yo uforget about meta for nanosecond you will realize skill gems are balanced against each other and their dps is meant to be more or less the same at entry level. It's solid point of reference. EQ can get away with having more dps than that because it cripples you because of aftershock delay. You need to lower youar attack speed, have less duration and whatever - it's tradeoff and it's fun. If you suddenly release gem which deals double that damage the first logical question is: 'why? does it cripple my character o ranything to justify that dps?'. In theory standing still is crippling, until you realise it's still better dps even when you move around rather than channeling. Oh, and it is range. And AoE is build in. And as I recently learned (thanks Boem!) double dips on DoTs. So it's rain of benefits on to p of double dps actually. So I say nerf the dps to be in line with other melee skills.

In what way does BF "double dip on dots"? Lol. The SCOURGE CLAWS double dip on dots, and it's the interaction with SCOURGE CLAWS and poison/bleed that *I* am asking to be nerfed. The BF nerf I threw in just to appease the ignorant masses, it really won't change anything when somebody throws on a viper strike gem instead of BF with those claws using an assassin build.

If you want to argue that BF should not do as much damage on first hit+release, I would agree with you. I've said in another thread already it should do less damage on the earlier channels. Your damage nerf doesn't change that though, and neither does mine. If you want to change that you should make it do an extra hit on 3rd channel, 2 hits on 4th, 3 on 5th, and 4 on 6th and no extra hits on the first two. Or something like that, without nerfing the total damage on 6th hit though.

BTW, you compare BF to EQ and EQ doesn't cripple you at all. You get enough dps to oneshot packs on the aftershock and leap slam, EQ, leap to next pack. The delay on it is not relevant to really anything except the fact that you can't do MORE AFTERSHOCKS while one is on timer, reducing single target damage. Which again, I've said I'd also be ok with BF reduced single target damage. The overall clear speed I don't think is that spectacular is the part that I think needs to stay the same for this skill to be AT ALL relevant in the next league.

Bottom line though is if you compare this gem on a non-scourge build, the damage is comparable to whispering ice, flameblast, bladefall, firestorm, BV, any bullshit caster gem really.

"

Turbodevil wrote:

And as I recently learned (thanks Boem!) double dips on DoTs.

Raics corrected me on this part, it's just dubiously worded, apparently the more only applies on the stacks itself.

Just correcting since i was wrong and wouldn't want to spread misinformation to far.

/carry on

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

In what way does BF "double dip on dots"?

It's is said (and imo needs to be extensive tested, it might be bug or gossip) that more damage per stage thing applies to both hit and DoT.

Seemed to be gossip after all. Thanks for clarification! :)

"

If you want to argue that BF should not do as much damage on first hit+release, I would agree with you. I've said in another thread already it should do less damage on the earlier channels. Your damage nerf doesn't change that though, and neither does mine. If you want to change that you should make it do an extra hit on 3rd channel, 2 hits on 4th, 3 on 5th, and 4 on 6th and no extra hits on the first two. Or something like that, without nerfing the total damage on 6th hit though.

I don't want that, I want it to deal less damage overall. Since this is chanelling skill with charge-up mechanics I expected it to be less than eveything else on 1st stack and more than everything else on full charges release, while keeping in mind 'more than everything else' means balanced, not 'double, tripple, whatever lul'. To achieve that overall dps nerf is required.