Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

"

Fruz wrote:

And one more time : the top HC is not the basis for all balance, and you are not experienced enough with HC to come and make everybody believe that you know well what works in HC and what doesn't.

LOL guy, I'm using WIDELY AVAILABLE FACTS from last league's statistics.

And if you want to balance the game around cast-on-death league's build stats well. I don't know really how to respond to that. Epic fail?

"

Sure_K4y wrote:

stuff

Most of what you're saying is outright lies at this point, just like what I caught you with a few pages ago, so I don't think there's any need to be bothered with it anymore.

If you have something relevant and logical to contribute at this point I might respond, but I'm not going to waste my time with manipulating liars to defend a skill I'm not even going to use.

"

Poutsos wrote:

I completely disagree with nerfing Blade Flurry's damage. I beleive boss deletion SHOULD be a melee feature. Rediculous clearspeed, and AoE/Ranged/kitting aspects should not. IMO blade flurry could use a drastic AoE nerf. Its AoE with Increased AoE gem should be as it currently is without it, and without the gem it should as it is now with conc effect, and with conc effect it should pretty much be point blank single target. And then buff all single targe melee gems to deal even more damage when being set upped without splash and nameloking to a boss.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. You're basically saying map clears which is 99% of the game for most people is a caster/bow feature and not a melee feature.

This is purely opinion mind you, but if I had to choose between the two I'd rather the skill lose a bunch of boss damage and keep its clear speed so melee has an hc-viable second option for map clearing. As it is I already don't like this skill's coverage because it's unreliable, even if you 1shot an entire pack there are always still a bunch of enemies standing around. I'd rather use reave for regular clears even with the existing system, and I don't use reave anymore either.

Well since HC shrunk to obscurity a spell isn't really viable in HC anymore unless it is either on a Totem, Trap or Mine. Remote skills are dominating HC ladders so much despite being not too powerful. And that is not because those skills are powerful or good, but because you can basically stay a screen away while they are doing damage and don't even need LoS.

If we just look at HC Blade Vortex is actually really balanced. 5 Living and one dead Pathfinder isn't so bad, because Blade Vortex is a natively more dangerous skill and you can still die to Detonate Dead or Volatiles. However this doesn't say much about balance. Everything that has to be on the same screen to kill enemies is propably considered garbage in HC.

"

Emphasy wrote:

Well since HC shrunk to obscurity a spell isn't really viable in HC anymore unless it is either on a Totem, Trap or Mine. Remote skills are dominating HC ladders so much despite being not too powerful. And that is not because those skills are powerful or good, but because you can basically stay a screen away while they are doing damage and don't even need LoS.

If we just look at HC Blade Vortex is actually really balanced. 5 Living and one dead Pathfinder isn't so bad, because Blade Vortex is a natively more dangerous skill and you can still die to Detonate Dead or Volatiles. However this doesn't say much about balance. Everything that has to be on the same screen to kill enemies is propably considered garbage in HC.

From https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/52ig08/forum_announcements_essence_league_statistics/d7ktib0/
Build Archetypes
Blade Vortex: 7 (6 Pathfinders, 1 Assassin)
Ancestral Warchief: 7 (2 Chieftains, 2 Hierophants, 2 Berserkers, 1 Champion).
Support: 6 (4 Guardians, 1 Necromancer, 1 Champion). 3 Guardians using Ball Lightning + Curse on Hit.
Summon Raging Spirit: 6 (all Necromancers)
Essence Drain: 3 (1 Champion, 1 Occultist, 1 probable Trickster)
Flameblast: 3 (2 Elementalists, 1 Inquisitor)
Lacerate (Dual Wield): 2 (both Juggernauts)
Blast Rain + Lightning Arrow: 1 (the only Deadeye)
Bladefall: 1 (Occultist)
Caustic Arrow: 1 (Occultist)
Earthquake: 1 (the only Slayer)
Explosive Arrow: 1 (Elementalist)
Firestorm: 1 (Juggernaut)
Flame Totem: 1 (Chieftain)
Kinetic Blast Miner: 1 (Saboteur)
Whispering Ice (Pyre Conversion): 1 (Elementalist)
Private: 7

Out of the 16 non-summon non-totem spell casters all 16 were self-cast. This was EHC early league stats (says "2 months ago"). There was literally one miner on that entire list (using a wand/bow attack mine) and no trappers.

Ironically I swear there was that one fire nova mine guy at the top also but apparently he was maybe doing something else with his build back then, IDK.

So while my own idea reflected yours initially that's not what the stats show apparently. They're all self cast.

And honestly we don't know which ones of them are solo, because with a Guardian my Pathfinder had about 10k ES, while he only had 4k with his own equip, so I assume that for each of those Guardian there is another player, which reduces risk also a lot.

But again SC consisted of about half Blade Vortex, which is widely different. Also he did miscount, there are 5 Pathfinders with Blade Vortex, 1 Assassin and 1 Occultist.

The thing HC would proof is that Warchief is actually ridicolous and on a powerlevel with Blade Vortex. The other thing is that it is consisting mostly of safe skills and I would argue that a lot of those Lacerate builds would switch to Blade Flurry because Daggers are better weapons, the range is similar and going CI is easier. Of course this depends on how ES is changed, but Lacerate shows that a long range melee skill can do well, and Blade Flurry is a lot better than Lacerate, exspecially since it is so incredible fast.

The other thing that HC essentially proofs is how afraid people are of death and how much this influences build choices. In SC most Warchief builds are Berserker and even then some of them never died, because they often don't even get hit. In HC they are Juggernauts and even Hierophant. Someone even made a Juggernaut for CI and Firestorm, mostly because he is stun immune I guess, but also becuase it is the safer choice, athough it was claimed he is Firestorm, which does make sense for his passivs, but it could be Flameblast as well.

"

So while my own idea reflected yours initially that's not what the stats show apparently. They're all self cast.

My point is that there is a lot less Blade Vortex in there than in Standard and that by looking at HC Blade Vortex wouldn't look as strong. And it is also more obvious that remote skills are preferable although I'm surprised that it is only totems, I would have expected to see a bit more Mines and Traps and not just one. And I should have included Essence Drain in my list, because it works very similar, you dot someone and then you can freely run away. I'm also not sure how much the changes to Decoy Totem did shake up this list, Firestorm and Flameblast work really nice with it.

So I watched the latest video of that unchained guy doing another shaper run with blade flurry, and the damage he's doing IS definitely too much.

I don't think that's necessarily from blade flurry though. Every other video I've seen of people (including mathil) doing shaper even with suicide builds are very similar to other shaper deletion videos I've seen in terms of damage output, including whispering ice, BV, and firestorm. I'm sure there are others, but even with a high end dagger the dps didn't look that absurd until I saw that guy's dual claw build.

I think the reason this particular build is so over the top is because of the way that claw works. Assassin with noxious strike + toxic delivery is basically doubling/tripling your DPS on any target just by existing with it's poison and bleed bonuses if you're crit capped. Any global damage sources double dip on that already-tripled bonus.

Reason this particular build is so ridiculous in part I think is those claws alone are giving 140% global damage (and you can get more sources), which double dips the poison/bleed and which is more multiplied in about 5 different ways between the assassin ascendancy, poison/bleed, and the vulnerability curse. If the mob/boss is being shocked it'd be even more absurd.

So while BF does have good damage, people don't realize watching that video that he might be killing shaper faster with just regular old shitty viper strike. His tooltip with all his buffs is only 115k. Pretty much any of the even shitty melee gems will do that much damage with that setup. It's the interaction in this case that is specifically doing that much damage.

I think there is some interaction between those claws and the assassin ascendancy specifically that needs some nerfing before the next league starts. I would suggest something like changing the 70% minion damage buff on the claws to 40-50% (I don't think any necromancers actually use those claws?) or just make it so the bonus can only apply once, and if you wanted to reduce the base damage multiplier on BF also from 61% to 55% (~10% damage reduction), it'd still survive to be a good useable melee skill. Remove the duration bonus from the toxic delivery node also, it's part of the interaction and nobody wants to sit around waiting for their DoT to tick down anyways, they want it up front.

These combined changes should nerf that one build quite a bit while only hurting the individual parts a little bit each. Or something similar to that effect.

^
So now the problem comes from the scourge and not the skill to you ??
Care to elaborate why we haven't had a the scourge - reave meta yet then ?
I mean, it's been out for 3 months, if it is THAT powerful, it would probably have been brought to light by now, with other skills.

Also some people can instantly kill Atziri's phase with elemental dagguers, not with that claw.
And crit dagguers are not exactly meta afaik ( as strong as crit is ).
And on a pathfinder, not an assassin.

But hey, you already started saying that the damage in this situation was too high, it's a start.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

And one more time : the top HC is not the basis for all balance, and you are not experienced enough with HC to come and make everybody believe that you know well what works in HC and what doesn't.

LOL guy, I'm using WIDELY AVAILABLE FACTS from last league's statistics.

And if you want to balance the game around cast-on-death league's build stats well. I don't know really how to respond to that. Epic fail?

Do you remember how you got those facts wrong couple of pages ago ?

The epic fail is actually your message here, for example Emphasy understands that the top HC is not the balance base, HC is an actual different playstile as almost everybody playing the ladder past lvl maybe ~80 is chickening out and playing things immune to or protected from reflect, and as safe as possibe from volatile.

The only way i can look at this whole situation is people must have this pattern of thought:

Current Meta: Poison Bleed is OP, build it on all physical damage skills.
Blade Flurry is Released: Oh its physical? lets put posion and bleed on it.
Peoples Conclusion: Oh Blade Flurry is OP.


*Poison and Bleed laughing in the background*

"

Poutsos wrote:

I completely disagree with nerfing Blade Flurry's damage. I beleive boss deletion SHOULD be a melee feature. Rediculous clearspeed, and AoE/Ranged/kitting aspects should not. IMO blade flurry could use a drastic AoE nerf. Its AoE with Increased AoE gem should be as it currently is without it, and without the gem it should as it is now with conc effect, and with conc effect it should pretty much be point blank single target. And then buff all single targe melee gems to deal even more damage when being set upped without splash and nameloking to a boss.

I guess I more or less agree with this, the worst part about blade flurry isn't as much the damage as the AOE imho.

And yeah, melee should trade the risk of being closer to targets for something else, like more damage for example ( at actual melee range ).

"

TenTonBlue wrote:

Current Meta: Poison Bleed is OP, build it on all physical damage skills.

I just linked a video of Mathil playing it on a .............. crit elemental dagguer build in the previous post.
In case you missed it.