Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee

To be fair, i think both sides are overeacting here. Yeah, blade flurry is very strong compared to other "melee"(lol) skills, possibly on par with pre nerfed earthquake, or pre nerf spectral throw, but at the same time it is not overall better than top archers or casters. I mean you can see Mathil, who is one of the greatest PoE players mechanically, failing to clear a hard T14 map with his really well built and balanced Blade Flurry Assasin, even with quite decent gear. The main thing i do not like about the skill is the fact that it is not melee, not its power. I think that kind of power, as in damage should be the MINIMUM among melee skills. I beleive its AoE should be lowered significantly. Its main selling point for me, is its high AoE, and the fact that only with a gem swap it can also be amazing for single target. But it is not the best on its own in neither category.

So, yeah i agree it should be nerfed, but the nerfs should be in line with:

1) Buffing all real melee skills..... ALOT

2) Nerfing archers, and top tier casting as well

My 2 cents.

"

Fruz wrote:

- There were literally more than 10 ( about 15, maybe 16 ) builds based on attacks on the top 50 EHC ladder of your link, literally. Fyi (as an example), AW is an attack. Mechanically, it is an attack, this is a fact and you can keep denying it, that will just show people ..... well, everybody understands already.

Blade vortex is not an attack. Totems are not an attack Totems attacking mobs does NOT make TOTEMS an attack build, moreover it's not RELEVANT how many totems builds there are because it's not an indicator of MELEE SKILL GEM BALANCE

"

Fruz wrote:

- I don't care if poor overall balance is your point or not, it's been everyone's point for ages, it's completely irrelevant,

IF BALANCE IS IRRELEVANT THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU POSTING IN THIS THREAD?????????????????

"

Fruz wrote:

What the ****, BV without vinktar and a significant AOE increase is a complete different story, it's essentially a melee skill range-wise and does not allow you to facetank anything. It just has very high damage ( Dunno if it could work with LGoH, but why would could when you can vinktar .... I kinda want to toy with it tho, sounds interesting ).

If you don't even know what LGoH does you are not qualified to discuss on these forums, period.

"

Fruz wrote:

Loots is fucking dropping from everywhere, finding a correct++ weapon is nothing like a challenge anymore, stop with that nonsense already, you are not fooling anybody here.
If you cannot work a little bit toward the only very important piece of gear of the char and get it from another player if you don't loot it yourself, there is something wrong.

But you sound like you have never actually played caster at high level to be honest.
The leveling part is absurdely dishonest at best also, there are so many awesome leveling weapon which will make you faster than spells ....

That's why every build says "level with BV or bladefall" or "level with spark or firestorm" right? How did nobody realize this before after years of playing POE that leveling with weapons is so much easier than leveling with spells, WOW! Lot of stupid people out there playing POE, all those streamers leveling with bladefall and BV are so clueless about the game, you'd think after playing endless hours of POE and topping races all the time they'd be at least as good as Fruz at playing the game, but I guess not! Fruz knows everything, you should start streaming so we can all learn from the great Fruz.

"

Fruz wrote:

Because you know what GGG is going to do lol, as much as you "know" that melee reworking will never happen when it has been said by Rory ( and Chris more vaguely in a former podcast I think, don't remember exactly ).

Quick historical fact: GGG has been working on melee for years and it still sucks

"

Poutsos wrote:

To be fair, i think both sides are overeacting here. Yeah, blade flurry is very strong compared to other "melee"(lol) skills, possibly on par with pre nerfed earthquake, or pre nerf spectral throw, but at the same time it is not overall better than top archers or casters. I mean you can see Mathil, who is one of the greatest PoE players mechanically, failing to clear a hard T14 map with his really well built and balanced Blade Flurry Assasin, even with quite decent gear. The main thing i do not like about the skill is the fact that it is not melee, not its power. I think that kind of power, as in damage should be the MINIMUM among melee skills. I beleive its AoE should be lowered significantly. Its main selling point for me, is its high AoE, and the fact that only with a gem swap it can also be amazing for single target. But it is not the best on its own in neither category.

So, yeah i agree it should be nerfed, but the nerfs should be in line with:

1) Buffing all real melee skills..... ALOT

2) Nerfing archers, and top tier casting as well

My 2 cents.

Yes this is EXACTLY what I am trying to say thank you.

Or more to the point I don't believe they are going to nerf archers or top tier casters at all (or if they do they will have another absurd caster buff like what happened with the BV "nerf"), and if they aren't going to do that then they should leave BF alone. That is my point basically.

Also, I'm not even sure they should nerf archers, they don't seem to be doing very well honestly. They're broken when built but apparently that is extremely difficult to do, because HC leagues never have more than 1 or 2 archers up there at the top. It's just like, every HC player just picks the most broken spell and plays it from go to endgame.

Lol @ Legatus1982.

You're using the wrong definition of 'attack.'

There is no defined meaning of 'attack' in the game. What we have is things that affect 'attacks' and 'attack damage.' The totems deal attack damage.

They deal damage based off of the value of equipped weapons or unarmed damage. They use accuracy rolls in determining hits and critical strikes. They are all modified by increases, reductions, and 'more' or 'less' the multipliers to 'attack damage' and 'melee attack damage.' They can be supported by gems that apply to 'melee attack.' Ascendancy skills and passives that apply to 'attacks' or 'attacks made with totems' apply to them.

So, all in all, I'd have to say that they are attacks. Just as much as Barrage totems or Siege Ballista.

Now, if all you are saying is that the player character doesn't directly make the attack itself, well who cares? That's meaningless when the only thing that matters is 'how much damage can I output with XYZ gear.'

The totems do more, faster, with better range, and safety than other melee skills.

Getting caught up in 'but the player isn't the one attacking' is stupid and pointless.

^
Well that is kinda obvious to be honest, the point of this thread isn't to fix all the problems with the balance, but to highlight one of the problem : blade flurry.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

- There were literally more than 10 ( about 15, maybe 16 ) builds based on attacks on the top 50 EHC ladder of your link, literally. Fyi (as an example), AW is an attack. Mechanically, it is an attack, this is a fact and you can keep denying it, that will just show people ..... well, everybody understands already.

Blade vortex is not an attack. Totems are not an attack Totems attacking mobs does NOT make TOTEMS an attack build, moreover it's not RELEVANT how many totems builds there are because it's not an indicator of MELEE SKILL GEM BALANCE

Oh my god I feel like I'm speaking to somebody deaf here.
- I don't care about blade vortex, you seem to like bringing it up for now reasons.
- The point wasn't about melee or not either, you're completely missing it one more time.
- Ancestral Warchief is literally an attack skill mechanically, it scales with attack bonuses, it scales with the player's weapon, it scales with everything that has do to with attacks.

Ancestral Warchief is an attack based skill, whatever might go through your head won't change that fact.
The top 50 EHC ladder had ~15 builds that were relying on attacks, attacks do offer significant mechanical advantages, which can be applied to blade flurry since it is attack based too.

Do you understand in English ? What other languages do you speak ? If English isn't exactly how you communicate usually I can try in another one maybe ....


And you seem to love taking things out of their context, I am not sure anymore if you are able to understand how the sentences are connected to the points.

About LGoH, I forgot that it applied only to attacks, my bad.
I'm almost never using it ( like everybody else probably because it's subpar in most situations. I must have one old build using it somewhere I guess ), so I had had forgotten about that.

And the fact that you don't know ele buzzsaw is kinda mind blowing.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Quick historical fact: GGG has been working on melee for years and it still sucks

Let me take another random pointless sentence out of my magic hat to keep on going with the fallacies like you do then :
Quick historical fact: GGG has been working on PoE for years and the balance isn't perfect still.

See ?

TLDR: You know absolutely nothing about what there will or will not be in the next patch(s), but you seem to like pretending otherwise.

"

RickyDMMont2ya wrote:

Now, if all you are saying is that the player character doesn't directly make the attack itself, well who cares? That's meaningless when the only thing that matters is 'how much damage can I output with XYZ gear.'

The totems do more, faster, with better range, and safety than other melee skills.

Getting caught up in 'but the player isn't the one attacking' is stupid and pointless.

Thank you

"

RickyDMMont2ya wrote:

Lol @ Legatus1982.

You're using the wrong definition of 'attack.'

There is no defined meaning of 'attack' in the game. What we have is things that affect 'attacks' and 'attack damage.' The totems deal attack damage.

They deal damage based off of the value of equipped weapons or unarmed damage. They use accuracy rolls in determining hits and critical strikes. They are all modified by increases, reductions, and 'more' or 'less' the multipliers to 'attack damage' and 'melee attack damage.' They can be supported by gems that apply to 'melee attack.' Ascendancy skills and passives that apply to 'attacks' or 'attacks made with totems' apply to them.

So, all in all, I'd have to say that they are attacks. Just as much as Barrage totems or Siege Ballista.

Now, if all you are saying is that the player character doesn't directly make the attack itself, well who cares? That's meaningless when the only thing that matters is 'how much damage can I output with XYZ gear.'

The totems do more, faster, with better range, and safety than other melee skills.

Getting caught up in 'but the player isn't the one attacking' is stupid and pointless.

Well by that logic I guess summon skeletons, raging spirits, zombies, specters, golems, animate guardian, and animate weapon are all attack builds because the zombies skellies raging spirits golems animated guardians and weapons and specters are all attacks right?

Yeah, a totem is not an attack sorry. This is pure intentional ignorance. There are 3 characters in the top 50 who are ACTUAL ATTACK BUILDS and not TOTEM OR SUMMONER BUILDS. I'll give you some guesses as to why there are so few self-attacking builds.

HINT: they all apply to blade flurry, which is the point of this fucking thread

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Well by that logic I guess summon skeletons, raging spirits, zombies, specters, golems, animate guardian, and animate weapon are all attack builds because the zombies skellies raging spirits golems animated guardians and weapons and specters are all attacks right?

Obviously you can scale pet's attack damage with attack support gem, but you cannot buff them with global attack modifiers, and apart from skill gems any attack specialization will not work, meaning than attack based builds will not fit.

Those are basic game mechanics here.

You should really not speak about ignorance in this very case, because it's the pot calling the kettle black again, and it is very obvious.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Well by that logic I guess summon skeletons, raging spirits, zombies, specters, golems, animate guardian, and animate weapon are all attack builds because the zombies skellies raging spirits golems animated guardians and weapons and specters are all attacks right?

Obviously you can scale pet's attack damage with attack support gem, but you cannot buff them with global attack modifiers, and apart from skill gems any attack specialization will not work, meaning than attack based builds will not fit.

Those are basic game mechanics here.

You should really not speak about ignorance in this very case, because it's the pot calling the kettle black again, and it is very obvious.

You know what else is basic game mechanics? Understanding the difference between casting a totem and using an attack.

Is blade flurry a fucking TOTEM? Oh, you mean it's NOT A TOTEM?

OK THEN, TOTEM BALANCE DOES NOT APPLY TO BLADE FLURRY THEN DOES IT EINSTEIN?

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Well by that logic I guess summon skeletons, raging spirits, zombies, specters, golems, animate guardian, and animate weapon are all attack builds because the zombies skellies raging spirits golems animated guardians and weapons and specters are all attacks right?

Jesus. And you were criticizing someone for not understanding mechanics a couple posts ago? Holy shit man.

Please explain how any of the skills you mentioned scale off of weapon damage, are affected by passives that affect generic 'attack' modifiers like 'attack speed' or 'increased physical damage with attacks.' Or, or, or...

Here, please explain how any of those skills inflict bleeding and poison on hit when I put on Voidheart.

"

Melee Attacks have (30-50)% chance to cause Bleeding

Melee Attacks have (20-40)% chance to Poison on Hit

Or Mortem Morsu or Snakebite etc.

Do you understand how logic works?

Let's reword the poison mod from Snakebite (While at maximum Frenzy Charges, Attacks Poison):

"

If and only if you hit an enemy with an attack while you are at maximum Frenzy Charges, then poison that enemy.

We make it a biconditional (if and only if) because it only applies the poison when the conditions are met. No charges? No poison. No hit? No poison. No attack? No poison.

Let's assume we are always at maximum Frenzy Charges. We can get rid of the "while at maximum Frenzy Charges" portion:

"

If and only if you hit an enemy with an attack, then poison that enemy.

Whether you think it's an attack or not, I hope you aren't trying to deny simple mechanics like 'hits' (but then I'm having a hard time respecting you based on your ideas about 'attacks'), and the enemy that is hit is the same enemy that's poisoned. So we can take both of those out of the statement:

"

If and only if attack then poison.

Now because it's a biconditional, we can reverse it to say:

"

If and only if poison, then attack.

Warchief totems inflict poison.

"

If and only if poison, then attack;
Poison;
Therefore attack.

Q.E.D. Sucka

You should really stop trying to talk with people who actually understand the game. Or logic. Or reason.

"

RickyDMMont2ya wrote:

Please explain how any of the skills you mentioned scale off of weapon damage, are affected by passives that affect generic 'attack' the modifiers like 'attack speed' or 'increased physical damage with attacks.'

Please explain how fucking totem balance applies to fucking blade flurry IN A BLADE FLURRY THREAD?

[Removed by Support]