Daily reminder that MF is an outdated mechanic and needs to leave.

If you take my MF away I will never touch this game again.
Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect. The base drop rates just need an increase because right now the chances to get a T1 item are 1:youwillnevergetit, which is bs. We have had a league with plenty of good rewards in the past, the economy took a blow because of it, but if you look at the actual statistics you will see that it had the most people playing to date and many found it to be a much more rewarding experience. I don't see why they are so damn greedy with drops to begin with considering they want people to experiment with builds yet the items needed are practically unobtainable. There's always going to be a market for good uniques even if they come down in price. All currency and rare items would be unaffected by a simple increase of unique item drops and people would have more fun playing the game in general.

/rant

"

DarkKaine wrote:

Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect.

This is always relative. Increasing droprates simultaneously increases one's standards for good items, such that things feel about the same.

Here's an illustration: Let's say I was slowly calling off random numbers between 1 and 1 million like some kind of crazy bingo caller. Your score in the game would be equal to the single highest number I've called. At the start of the game you'd get steady upgrades, but eventually it would taper off, and things would get boring.

Now imagine I called out numbers twice as fast. The exact same gameplay would inevitably set in; nothing fundamentally changed. The main differences would be
1. you'd get a higher score before getting bored with drops
2. you'd get bored with drops faster than before

High droprates don't make loot more interesting; they make PvE content easier.

By the way, one of the advantages of my earlier suggestion is that this process becomes more transparent to players if MF mods only effect certain item types. If you're effectively doubling your droprate for helmets but not for other gear, you're more likely to be self-aware of how your standards adjust.

But more than anything, people need to understand that a play money slot machine has limited entertainment value. One can't expect to maintain player interest with item drops alone. ARPGs need gameplay which is engaging enough to be considered its own reward, because sooner or later drops are always, always going to be shit.

TL;DR: What RagnarokChu said.

Not everybody wants to just farm maps and getting through the shaper. Some people like farming areas or bosses with magic find. Some people spent hundreds of hours farming single bosses (Pindleskin?) in D2. No reason to take away one way to play this game because you're selfish and want magic find without building it into your character.

I think they should change it to be more like the way the atlas works. Have it give a chance at drops being +1 tier. Once you reach a certain threshold, all drops get +1 tier. If you are supposed to get a T2 unique, have one from the T1 pool drop. If you get a magic or rare item, have each mod move up a tier. Instead of getting that rare with P3.P2.P5.S4.S4.S2 mods, have it drop P2.P1.P4.S3.S3.S1. You could have IIR above the threshold give a chance of +2 uniques or mods dropping. Balance could be done by adjusting what the thresholds are.

"

DarkKaine wrote:

If you take my MF away I will never touch this game again.
Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect. The base drop rates just need an increase because right now the chances to get a T1 item are 1:youwillnevergetit, which is bs. We have had a league with plenty of good rewards in the past, the economy took a blow because of it, but if you look at the actual statistics you will see that it had the most people playing to date and many found it to be a much more rewarding experience. I don't see why they are so damn greedy with drops to begin with considering they want people to experiment with builds yet the items needed are practically unobtainable. There's always going to be a market for good uniques even if they come down in price. All currency and rare items would be unaffected by a simple increase of unique item drops and people would have more fun playing the game in general.

/rant

They actually have greatly increased the drop rates of high tier uniques (and then adjusted some of them down a teeeeeny tiiiiiny bit). That said, I don't think you know how MF works if you think that MF is getting you significantly more T1 unique drops (or anything close to it). Basically, MF'ing results in exponentially more shit-tier blue/yellow items, and more vendor-garbage uniques. MF'ers use these to do Chaos recipes, or collect thousands of alterations/alchs to sell (with the occasional GG rare, or sellable unique, but not necessarily more of them than you would get just by clearing content efficiently with no MF).

"

Docbp87 wrote:

"

DarkKaine wrote:

If you take my MF away I will never touch this game again.
Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect. The base drop rates just need an increase because right now the chances to get a T1 item are 1:youwillnevergetit, which is bs. We have had a league with plenty of good rewards in the past, the economy took a blow because of it, but if you look at the actual statistics you will see that it had the most people playing to date and many found it to be a much more rewarding experience. I don't see why they are so damn greedy with drops to begin with considering they want people to experiment with builds yet the items needed are practically unobtainable. There's always going to be a market for good uniques even if they come down in price. All currency and rare items would be unaffected by a simple increase of unique item drops and people would have more fun playing the game in general.

/rant

They actually have greatly increased the drop rates of high tier uniques (and then adjusted some of them down a teeeeeny tiiiiiny bit). That said, I don't think you know how MF works if you think that MF is getting you significantly more T1 unique drops (or anything close to it). Basically, MF'ing results in exponentially more shit-tier blue/yellow items, and more vendor-garbage uniques. MF'ers use these to do Chaos recipes, or collect thousands of alterations/alchs to sell (with the occasional GG rare, or sellable unique, but not necessarily more of them than you would get just by clearing content efficiently with no MF).

Found a Koam's Heart on my MF CA character. It somewhat works the way he thinks it does. Not only that found many of uniques that hold value, especially early in the league. While you aren't incorrect, it does increase the amount of rares or what not you get, it for sure has an impact on other tier uniques too.


OP is just mad because she uses niche uniques that have no MF and doesn't care to pay a bit extra to have MF on her characters. Furthermore, she plays mainly solo so she can't just have someone cull for her.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

DarkKaine wrote:

Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect.

This is always relative. Increasing droprates simultaneously increases one's standards for good items, such that things feel about the same.

Here's an illustration: Let's say I was slowly calling off random numbers between 1 and 1 million like some kind of crazy bingo caller. Your score in the game would be equal to the single highest number I've called. At the start of the game you'd get steady upgrades, but eventually it would taper off, and things would get boring.

Now imagine I called out numbers twice as fast. The exact same gameplay would inevitably set in; nothing fundamentally changed. The main differences would be
1. you'd get a higher score before getting bored with drops
2. you'd get bored with drops faster than before

That is actually not true. That is, 1) obviously is true, but 2) isn't necessarily true - you would still get updates at the same rate (updates/time).

Assume you call 1 number per second. After 1000 seconds, your chance for an upgrade is 1/1000 per "drop" (number call) and thus 1/1000 per second (because that is the chance of the 1000th number to be the highest of all).

If you call 2 numbers per second, then after 1000 seconds, your chance for an upgrade is 1/2000 per "drop" (since 2000 numbers have been called) and thus 2*1/2000 = 1/1000 per second, since you have 2 numbers per second, exactly the same as before. The improvement will, however, be less meaningful if it happens (due to point 1)).

In either case, the problem is that after N seconds you can expect to, on average, get 1 upgrade in the next N seconds, which means that the upgrade rate gets really slow. Thank god we have more than 1 item slot, and other things we can work towards as well (21/20 gems and such). Also, trade both makes this more bearable (because you will be able to work towards a goal) and more annoying (because it makes it less likely for you to actually FIND an upgrade). Crafting would do the same, but be more fun than trading, but crafting is not really a thing in this game for the average player, sadly.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

High droprates don't make loot more interesting; they make PvE content easier.

Well, that is probably true - what is also true though is that it allows you to try out more builds.

That being said, I still do think that MF is a crap mechanic.

"

Docbp87 wrote:

"

DarkKaine wrote:

If you take my MF away I will never touch this game again.
Playing full MF and with high ks the drops aren't amazing, they are "acceptable" (still low) for what I expect. The base drop rates just need an increase because right now the chances to get a T1 item are 1:youwillnevergetit, which is bs. We have had a league with plenty of good rewards in the past, the economy took a blow because of it, but if you look at the actual statistics you will see that it had the most people playing to date and many found it to be a much more rewarding experience. I don't see why they are so damn greedy with drops to begin with considering they want people to experiment with builds yet the items needed are practically unobtainable. There's always going to be a market for good uniques even if they come down in price. All currency and rare items would be unaffected by a simple increase of unique item drops and people would have more fun playing the game in general.

/rant

They actually have greatly increased the drop rates of high tier uniques (and then adjusted some of them down a teeeeeny tiiiiiny bit). That said, I don't think you know how MF works if you think that MF is getting you significantly more T1 unique drops (or anything close to it). Basically, MF'ing results in exponentially more shit-tier blue/yellow items, and more vendor-garbage uniques. MF'ers use these to do Chaos recipes, or collect thousands of alterations/alchs to sell (with the occasional GG rare, or sellable unique, but not necessarily more of them than you would get just by clearing content efficiently with no MF).

It just increases the odds of things dropping, in this case uniques, if you see twice as many uniques drop you're going to see twice as many t1 uniques drop.

Don't care one way or the other. Never made a MF character. It would be one less crap mod on a rare as far as i'm concerned.

"

Char1983 wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Now imagine I called out numbers twice as fast. The exact same gameplay would inevitably set in; nothing fundamentally changed. The main differences would be
1. you'd get a higher score before getting bored with drops
2. you'd get bored with drops faster than before

That is actually not true. That is, 1) obviously is true, but 2) isn't necessarily true - you would still get updates at the same rate (updates/time).

Assume you call 1 number per second. After 1000 seconds, your chance for an upgrade is 1/1000 per "drop" (number call) and thus 1/1000 per second (because that is the chance of the 1000th number to be the highest of all).

If you call 2 numbers per second, then after 1000 seconds, your chance for an upgrade is 1/2000 per "drop" (since 2000 numbers have been called) and thus 2*1/2000 = 1/1000 per second, since you have 2 numbers per second, exactly the same as before. The improvement will, however, be less meaningful if it happens (due to point 1)).

Not quite. You're estimating.

Chance of upgrade(s) = 1-(chance of no upgrade)

1x droprate: 1-(999/1000) = 0.001
2x droprate: 1-(1999/2000)^2 = 0.0009975
Difference: 0.0000025, aka 1 in 4 million

This difference is exactly equal to the chance of two items matching the criterion dropping pretty much simultaneously. However, if that happens, the second one only gets the official "upgrade" nod if it drops higher than the first. (If you just counted this as 2 upgrades, your estimation would be correct.)

There's a bunch of other math I've done before and cannot recall (this is nowhere near a new idea for me), but trust me, it simplifies to this: 1/1000 > 2/2001.
(Because 999/1000 < 1999/2000*2000/2001.)

I will give you this much, though: that's pretty darn close to equal, especially as the denominator approaches infinity. Inequality is definitely a nitpick.

Still, the popular argument for increasing droprates is precisely to increase upgrade frequency. Something we're mathematically confident does NOT happen. Droprates do not significantly impact upgrade frequency.