Labyrinth for returning player

"

Chadwixx wrote:

They wont comeback, my flist has taken a big hit since the lab was introduced. Doesnt bother me because i play solo but people would rather play another game than play one with the lab in it. At least thats what they tell me.

The lab is just poorly designed. The chants are fine, but the points need to be put behind malachai.

People arent invested into poe like you are, I think people forget this often when defending the lab. Its done more damage to the game than good

Good, if they don't come back fine with me, less clutter on the feedback forums for things you know that are important or that will likely get changed.


Points behind malachai has already been stated many times as a stupid fucking idea, sorry if you think its original, it isn't. No act bosses give rewards and giving you those points is just free in normal and cruel, they are called ASCENDANCY POINTS, not GIBE ME FREE POINTS BECAUSE I HAVE TO DO THIS QUEST ANYWAY TO PROGRESS.


Lol, the damage to the game has been trying to appeal to a casual playerbase with massive power creep. I'd be perfectly fine with them not giving AC points in the lab, if it were removed altogether from the game.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

666lol666 wrote:

"

Siochan wrote:

You're not alone. Many, many people hate the lab and think it's an incredibly stupid idea to put core ARPG character development behind frogger trap gameplay.

Whoooot? Many? No way, we are only a vocal minority!

Since no one has answered my question in other threads, what are you going to do if they make no changes to the way to get AC points in 2.4?

Tbh. I don't give a fuck because I have all the points & enchants I ever wanted and will probably never run lab again. I really hate the lab but after being a pain in the ass finally it has become completely optional at least for me.

"

goetzjam wrote:

This game wasn't designed for causal players, that is fundamentally what is wrong here, sacrificing or suggesting the sacrifice of game design because the lowest man on the totem pole suffers.

How is the difficulty of normal lab traps relevant for game design? The lab was not part of the original PoE. Quite the opposite. It is further away from the original PoE than anything else in contemporary PoE.
Making PoE more appealing to casuals is something GGG does now. That is obvious. If you say GGG is wrong with that - ok. However what my point here is: Making normal lab difficult while continuing the ongoing high level power creep is wrong. They should do it the other way round. Your generic response does not address this point.

"

goetzjam wrote:

GGG needs to stick with what got them started,

Yes they should remove the traps - or fix them to fit into the original rule set.

"

goetzjam wrote:

appealing to a more difficult to get into,

Fully disagree. There is no benefit other than "we the elitists ego attitde" to make the game artificially hard to get into.

"

goetzjam wrote:

learn, play, slower paced ARPG game that was fun, not just open the doors up and move that line closer and closer to D3.

Agree. However I dont see the traps in the labyrinth as something to strive for. Quite the opposite.

"

goetzjam wrote:

This whole "blah blah" needs changed because of causal players arrangements need to stop. This game didn't become successful because it appealed to casual players.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Maybe you (mis)interpreted my post as "Make the game easier because of casuals!". I am not campaigning for that. I am campaigning for 2 things:
a) Make "the game" harder. With "the game" I mean the 95% of the end game mapping. Not the 0.1% hardest content. I do not particulary care how hard quadrupled GMP no leech uber Shaper map will be. Its not part of the 95%. Nor do I mean the normal labyrinth. Nor any traps in any labyrinth.
b) Remove the rule breaking hip hop stuff in the labyrinth.

What rules do traps break that you keep mentioning?


They can be mitigated, just not with literally all forms of defense, I don't even know why people think traps shouldn't exists as a challenge, you can plan accordingly and there are many things you can do to mitigate or avoid them. The point of traps are to either mitigate or avoid them, thats why they "hurt"

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Yes they should remove the traps - or fix them to fit into the original rule set.

Do you want the game to remain perpetually stuck in 2013, with no new mechanics? Yeah, no thanks, that would sink GGG and PoE for that matter. Only the racers and people like you would still be here playing. I bet you wish every map in PoE was Gorge with just one long, straight path of endless mobs, right?

Seriously, though, I understand people not liking lab, and I wouldn't mind them swapping in some other reward than unlocking the Ascendancy points. But if they did that, then there would still be people complaining about that new reward being gated by the lab. You can't please everybody. My solution to all of those who hate the lab: just get your points by grouping with someone or another party who's churning out runs. Enter right before the final Izaro battle and be done with it, then you can move on and enjoy the rest of PoE.

"

goetzjam wrote:

What rules do traps break that you keep mentioning?

Example 1:
Rule before the "trap era": More life == good. I will be able to survive longer / more hits.
Rule in "trap era": More life == bad. I will be able to survive fewer hits (vs the traps which hit like ground spike trap). It will also not help me at all vs the degen traps. If I have flat regen (stone golem) it will even weaken me vs the degen traps.

Example 2:
Rule before "trap era": Add energy shield to life == good. It lets me survive longer. Once the ES is depleted it may be useless but at least it will not hurt me.
Rule in "trap era": Add energy shield to life == bad. Regen and flask on life will be effectively weakened by the added layer of energy shield. Once the ES is depleted it becomes a liability.

The trap mechanics are a perversion of the original rule set. That is my main complaint about the traps.

"

cipher_nemo wrote:

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Yes they should remove the traps - or fix them to fit into the original rule set.

Do you want the game to remain perpetually stuck in 2013, with no new mechanics?

I do not like your generic formulation as I see it as misleading. What I want is an ARPG. Not a platformer.

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Why should we play something that we find it's boring and tedious ant ultimately NOT FUN?

because we do things we do not like but that are necessary, in rpg games to be strong you have to suffer, no pain no gain

POE is an easy rpg, you thought stay on the act 1 for three hours, to training strength, agility or intelligence to kill brutus and merveil? there is a lot of rpg that u need do this

if GGG make an easy game, u probably will stop playing, easy games are cloying

spend 10 minutes of your day with the laby and do what you like, there is no solid argument of those who do not like the lab

10 min normal lab (u can du better) and the benefits are permanent, low price to a big deal

"

Moshe_of_Succubus wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Why should we play something that we find it's boring and tedious ant ultimately NOT FUN?

because we do things we do not like but that are necessary, in rpg games to be strong you have to suffer, no pain no gain

POE is an easy rpg, you thought stay on the act 1 for three hours, to training strength, agility or intelligence to kill brutus and merveil? there is a lot of rpg that u need do this

if GGG make an easy game, u probably will stop playing, easy games are cloying

spend 10 minutes of your day with the laby and do what you like, there is no solid argument of those who do not like the lab

10 min normal lab (u can du better) and the benefits are permanent, low price to a big deal

You can do the lab in 10mins but takes you 3 hours in a1? LOL

"

Petarded wrote:

So i am a returning player and im not too familiar with the labyrinth however i tried to clear one in normal difficulty on my lvl 84 marauder and i feel the traps need to be reworked. I didnt not expect such rogue like elements to be in poe i really loved to grinding and mmorpg elements it had. the traps in normal diffulty deals so much damage to me even though i am level 84 im not sure if the damage is based on your characters hp or what but this is ridiculous. people are just gonna call me a noob for not being able to clear the labyrinth but when i play a lvl 84 character and do a content intended for level 20-30 i want to clear it without so much effort. sorry for the poor composition of this post but i just want to address this "problem" i face with this content and it takes too long to clear even in normal difficulty. It makes me NOT want to play again

So you basically want the asc points without any sort of challenge. you can become a member of the crusade. You will fit right in.

[Removed by Support]

"

Rule before the "trap era": More life == good. I will be able to survive longer / more hits.
Rule in "trap era": More life == bad. I will be able to survive fewer hits (vs the traps which hit like ground spike trap). It will also not help me at all vs the degen traps. If I have flat regen (stone golem) it will even weaken me vs the degen traps.

This is just false, how do you think having more regen will make you weaker against something that does % damage over time.

The flat regen is the only thing that is overly beneficial for you because % regen also scales with your HP, which scales the damage you take. Whereas if you have less life but high flat regen its easier to mitigate the damage.

Regardless regen isn't even needed to do the lab and having more life doesn't hurt you really "more" yes the amount u take is more, but you will die in the same amount of time with 5000 HP or 10000 HP against the traps (assuming no flat regen is really a factor)

"

Rule before "trap era": Add energy shield to life == good. It lets me survive longer. Once the ES is depleted it may be useless but at least it will not hurt me.
Rule in "trap era": Add energy shield to life == bad. Regen and flask on life will be effectively weakened by the added layer of energy shield. Once the ES is depleted it becomes a liability.

The trap mechanics are a perversion of the original rule set. That is my main complaint about the traps.

These aren't rules, they are simply what happened before the lab, that doesn't mean its right. You have to keep in mind the lab doesn't have to be like maps or other content, you don't have to enjoy

"

I do not like your generic formulation as I see it as misleading. What I want is an ARPG. Not a platformer.

Traps don't equal platformer, positioning requirements don't equal frogger, stop with the low effort post and comparisons, they arent even good.

"

You can do the lab in 10mins but takes you 3 hours in a1? LOL

Sounds about right, Kappa