Labyrinth for returning player

For those people who say " POE wasnt designed to be for casual players in the first place" then why TF is there standard and hardcore? IM a standard player and i want to play this game casually but the labyrinth is completely ruining it. The difficulty is absurd and needs to be reworked.

IMO GGG is just releasing content and only thinking about the more hardcore players. players like me cant realyl enjoy and benefit from such an update as the labyrinth

OP, don't even bother to reply to such comments. Waste of time.
Once upon a time this game was designed as an unforgiving HC experience through unforgiving difficulty and high complexity. What's left is the complexity, while gameplay has turned into casual fest, no different than other games of this genre, which a part of PoE player base tend to call names.

On point. Lab isn't difficult. Just annoying, and also disgusting for some. Once you play it 4-5 times you can easily remember the tilesets and learn the shortcuts to have it completed in no time. You will also stop dying. The only left will be the bitter taste that you are forced to do content you obviously dislike, but you have to.
Try it, run it a couple of times with disgust, you will finally learn how to get your ascendancy points in no time. Three times per character and just forget about it.

A side note, related to bullshits coming out of the WK brigade.
Lab is the worst attempt to implement roguelike elements in an aRPG I've ever seen. Because of its mechanics. Its implementation. Its forced-to-do nature. Its tech issues.
One small mistake-forever dead mentality got nothing to do with HC. But more likely with S&M deviations, both the side of developers and players. Not to mention tech problems are the major cause of deaths.
Such mandatory and unavoidable roguelike events belong to true roguelike games, which are niche and please specific audience.
It also applies to the arcade games.
These all are very very very niche mechanics.

In short, lab is utter shit in this game, doesn't belong here, and is still present only because of the size of the Mr. Wilson's ego. Of astronomical proportions. Implementing divisive content, getting financial losses and watching player base shrink, but still insisting on what he believes is right, speaks by itself.
I can bet there'll be more of it in future just for the above mentioned reason.

i can see what OP trying to say
also i'm personally hate Lab much more because i forced to do it

i did enjoyed it when i got it done, yes

i can see it as a very interesting and challenging optional content, and if i decide to do it at some point and rip there even in HC, i will blame only myself to get all cavalier(while i am utter casualest noob of course).

but now when i'm dying in HC normal Lab in some corridor of non-stop traps at level 65-70 trying to get at least two AscPoints, it gets me off the game until next expansion ((

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Zrevnur wrote:

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cipher_nemo wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

Yes they should remove the traps - or fix them to fit into the original rule set.

Do you want the game to remain perpetually stuck in 2013, with no new mechanics?

I do not like your generic formulation as I see it as misleading. What I want is an ARPG. Not a platformer.

I'll make sure I plead with GGG to add a jumping dynamic to the traps.

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Chadwixx wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

@Chad

My characters are not hidden, i have none of those boxes checked.

Nice lineup. I noticed you were using dancing dervish as an oh, tried it as a mh and didnt like, will have to watch a bit to utilize it.

Movement speed potions help a ton, the problem for the op is old chars dont work in the lab. Was my biggest gripe in begin, i still dont like it, but for my new chars its not a problem.

People may just wanna rebuild, the next char is usually your best char unless copying my spec :) I have a shield now, first time ever, i love the thing.

The lab pushed people to remake their char, its good design because thats the only thing that would shake up the standard community.

I still dont like it though, doors and tunnel dead end maps are the only things i dislike about poe, those are its difficulty in the lab.

I bought the sword for 40c because it was 6 linked and I was contemplating making a facebreaker raider with it at some point, just didn't do it.

Confused by the statement that old characters don't work, you should be able to do the lab with any of your characters.


Once you learn how to navigate the lab, running into dead ends or wrong ways is avoidable or very rare.

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Here is a CI build which supposedly is virtually immune to traps due to regen and not due to phys immunity: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/4xnyb0/how_does_one_make_a_build_that_can_survive_7/d6h0wqo

Interesting build, its obviously specialized at doing the lab, didn't see it in action, but reviewed the tree. Something like this is meant to excel at one thing, but overall not optimal outside the scope of the lab.

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Of course life helps vs the boss. The boss himself is not part of the "alternate rule set" trap system.
But the boss is not always the hardest part.
First this thread is about normal Labyrinth with a lvl 84 char.
Second: Even for uber lab I have to disagree. It obviously depends on build and player skill. And it may be harder to overcome the boss purely with skill. But there are many end game builds that do not need to because they can easily facetank or instagib the (unbuffed) boss without serious threat

Normal, cruel, doesn't matter what lab it is, they do % life, just because you are doing an easier difficulty lab doens't mean it shouldn't pose a challenge because you overleved the shit out of it.

As for how you can possibly disagree with #2, unless you one shot him before he does anything (aka mines\traps) then having more life is nothing but helpful against him and even if you do 1 shot him, all that does is nullify the need to have more life, not that it is detrimental to have more life.

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DONT LOSE HOPE! Eventually GGG will have to face the music when their player retention rates PLUMMETS!

Just look at the steam stats!

http://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All

Player retention this league has been ABYSMAL. In 30 days since the league start, 50% of players left the game! In previous leagues, less than 33% left in 30 days!

Steam charts are unreliable and many factors come into play, aside from the lab when it comes to "players leaving" keep being delusional if you'd like it doesn't change the fact of the matter that no one gives a shit about steam charts.

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For those people who say " POE wasnt designed to be for casual players in the first place" then why TF is there standard and hardcore? IM a standard player and i want to play this game casually but the labyrinth is completely ruining it. The difficulty is absurd and needs to be reworked.

Why is it called standard and not softcore, why is it called standard and not causal mode, because standard is just a reflection of a non perm death league, a SOFTCORE league would indicate an easier and more accessible game, yet that isn't the case, everything is identical between the HC\standard versions, except loss of character on death.

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IMO GGG is just releasing content and only thinking about the more hardcore players. players like me cant realyl enjoy and benefit from such an update as the labyrinth

Yup, i noticed you haven't ascended on your highest level character. So why on earth do you have a dog in this fight when you aren't even doing the content?

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but now when i'm dying in HC normal Lab in some corridor of non-stop traps at level 65-70 trying to get at least two AscPoints, it gets me off the game until next expansion ((

Avoid getting hit by the traps, learn the pattern, roll proper life flask, I could go on, but these are things that players that do the lab have learned to help them.

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goetzjam wrote:

As for how you can possibly disagree with #2, unless you one shot him before he does anything (aka mines\traps) then having more life is nothing but helpful against him and even if you do 1 shot him, all that does is nullify the need to have more life, not that it is detrimental to have more life.

May have been unclear: The 'disagree' referred to the boss being the hardest part. Not the life being useful part. Life doesnt hurt vs the boss. But for many builds the (unbuffed) boss hardly matters due to massive power creep in the "normal rule set" game parts.
I do not like the approach GGG is taking: Instead of fixing/addressing the problem of power creep inside the normal/original rule set they add alternative rule sets which invalidate many aspects of the normal/original rule set. IMO they should focus on fixing the normal/original rule set instead.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

As for how you can possibly disagree with #2, unless you one shot him before he does anything (aka mines\traps) then having more life is nothing but helpful against him and even if you do 1 shot him, all that does is nullify the need to have more life, not that it is detrimental to have more life.

May have been unclear: The 'disagree' referred to the boss being the hardest part. Not the life being useful part. Life doesnt hurt vs the boss. But for many builds the (unbuffed) boss hardly matters due to massive power creep in the "normal rule set" game parts.
I do not like the approach GGG is taking: Instead of fixing/addressing the problem of power creep inside the normal/original rule set they add alternative rule sets which invalidate many aspects of the normal/original rule set. IMO they should focus on fixing the normal/original rule set instead.

Can't you understand why traps have to be different?

If they just did flat damage or "hit" or anything different then what they are now, they would be fair easier to trivialize and the discrepancy between the challenge for various builds would be much higher, like the rest of the game.

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goetzjam wrote:

Can't you understand why traps have to be different?

No, they dont have to use a different rule that. And obviously this is a matter of opinion. Yours differs from mine.

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goetzjam wrote:

If they just did flat damage or "hit" or anything different then what they are now, they would be fair easier to trivialize and the discrepancy between the challenge for various builds would be much higher, like the rest of the game.

The discrepancy which we currently have is extremely high:
See the build that I linked to. See any of the Juggernaut lab runner builds. Then try to do the traps & sentinels with a low live build which has no Armour and no phys mitigation. Its possible of course - given player skill and/or doing changes to the build/setup. But given this existing difference between "traps are trivial" Juggernauts and the LL build I do not see proper value in your line of argumentation. And some of the Juggernaut builds are good at other endgame stuff too. Not just traps & Izaro.
If your argument would be "it should be difficult for a large number of otherwise strong builds" I would at least agree with your line of argumentation. Because the trap rule set does accomplish that. Not that that changes my opinion. I disagree with the goal and/or methodology of making it "artificially" difficult.

This (discrepancy between difficulty for different builds) is however not the primary reason for me disliking the trap rule set. I dislike it mostly for thematic/conceptual reasons. And not so much due to the influence on gameplay/builds - as I can personally deal with it and it is not prohibitive for me.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Can't you understand why traps have to be different?

No, they dont have to use a different rule that. And obviously this is a matter of opinion. Yours differs from mine.

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goetzjam wrote:

If they just did flat damage or "hit" or anything different then what they are now, they would be fair easier to trivialize and the discrepancy between the challenge for various builds would be much higher, like the rest of the game.

The discrepancy which we currently have is extremely high:
See the build that I linked to. See any of the Juggernaut lab runner builds. Then try to do the traps & sentinels with a low live build which has no Armour and no phys mitigation. Its possible of course - given player skill and/or doing changes to the build/setup. But given this existing difference between "traps are trivial" Juggernauts and the LL build I do not see proper value in your line of argumentation. And some of the Juggernaut builds are good at other endgame stuff too. Not just traps & Izaro.
If your argument would be "it should be difficult for a large number of otherwise strong builds" I would at least agree with your line of argumentation. Because the trap rule set does accomplish that. Not that that changes my opinion. I disagree with the goal and/or methodology of making it "artificially" difficult.

This (discrepancy between difficulty for different builds) is however not the primary reason for me disliking the trap rule set. I dislike it mostly for thematic/conceptual reasons. And not so much due to the influence on gameplay/builds - as I can personally deal with it and it is not prohibitive for me.

Jugg isnt picked because it trivalizes the traps, hes picked because it trivializes the boss.


Again armor does nothing against most of the traps and traps that don't hit aren't giving you endurance charges.

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If your argument would be "it should be difficult for a large number of otherwise strong builds" I would at least agree with your line of argumentation. Because the trap rule set does accomplish that.

That is what I said, its or at least challenging for a number of builds.