Minority, and a Plea.

When I mention "optional endgame content" I'm referencing the new Atlas stuff.

Not sure if that post was directed at me or someone else...but that's the only time I was talking about it.

there is nothing optional about the Atlas - it dictates the new (entirely non-optional) map drop rules. you can pretend it does not exist, you can never open it nor use its features - but the new rules governing map drops are there like it or not.

there is no way you can ignore that.

so yes, it was directed at you (And people clutching at this just like you did) to show just how hollow this 'example' is

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sidtherat wrote:

there is nothing optional about the Atlas - it dictates the new (entirely non-optional) map drop rules. you can pretend it does not exist, you can never open it nor use its features - but the new rules governing map drops are there like it or not.

there is no way you can ignore that.

so yes, it was directed at you (And people clutching at this just like you did) to show just how hollow this 'example' is

I'd argue the new content that is about to be implemented has been based around the increased power of the characters due to the ascendancy classes, so saying that they are optional is a bit nonsensical. Just looking at the trailers/video of the new bosses, they do obscene damage already with what looks like 0 damage mods on the map.

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IceDeal wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

Then they should have added an alternative way to get AC points too, because there are people who are not interested in the lab gameplay. :P

They should also give an alternative way to get quests rewards because there a people who are not interested in doing quests.

Quests are done on the fly. It doesnt even take 2-3 minutes to finish a side quest (compared to the time you would have safed when not doing the quest) and there's literally no risk at all for any important side quest, since the "bosses" are no challange.

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AceNightfire wrote:

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IceDeal wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

Then they should have added an alternative way to get AC points too, because there are people who are not interested in the lab gameplay. :P

They should also give an alternative way to get quests rewards because there a people who are not interested in doing quests.

Quests are done on the fly. It doesnt even take 2-3 minutes to finish a side quest (compared to the time you would have safed when not doing the quest) and there's literally no risk at all for any important side quest, since the "bosses" are no challange.

i couldnt have dreamed about lab-hater so openly admitting that their problem with the lab is simply the difficulty

you like the lab rewards - but you hate that there is risk involved. minimizing risk requires effort. and effort is de mode nowadays..

hilarious confession, thank you.

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Sardekar wrote:

My point is this, in summary - Yes, some people like the Lab, some hate it, and many others are ambivalent. GGG are not making the next new endgame content mandatory. To me, this shows that they realize that at least some part of the Lab or the way it was handled was unsuccessful. To me, it's as close to an admission that "we like divisive content" was an idiotic statement as we are likely to ever get, so I'll take it. I'd also guess we'll see some changes to the way Ascendancy points and the Lab work in the near future, because why admit you were wrong on one hand by not making the same mistake twice, yet not fix the first mistake?

I'm willing to wait and see, and hope for the best. I'm one of the guys who will play either way, because I'm willing to do one thing I hate in a game in order to do a bunch of other stuff I enjoy(and I think that's a large chunk of the playerbase), but is that really what GGG wants to be their status quo? Lack of choice, but we'll do it anyway....Try giving us a choice, See how that affects the numbers, what's there to lose?

The thing for me is, the lab is not intrusive enough. It is very similar to Atziri and Vaal Sideareas, in that you can have very little contact with it (in theory you could ignore it entirely, but the ascendancies are too tempting and powerful for that).

I would already assume that most players hate or like certain areas in the game more than others and they just have to deal with it. Most games have areas you feel are designed poorly, feel unfit for the game or whatever. The lab is about an hour of gameplay of that and after that it is over.

The lab also isn't very mazy, and if you want to avoid all that you could look up the layout. And the areas itself aren't any more maze than regular areas. So if you don't enjoy the maze aspect, look up the layout.

For me personally the lab just isn't a big enough part of the game to make a bit fuss about it. There is certainly room for improvement, there usually always is, but I don't feel it is worth putting too much work into it. People not being big fans of it won't change their mind if you change minor things about it and most bigger changes that would maybe make it more attractive to those people would require making it more deadly or less rewarding, which again would likely turn it into content that is ignored. At first I didn't liked it that much, mostly due to technical aspects, having traps and basically non-dcable content doesn't fit into an online game. But then again I just acknowledged that flaw, since on the other hand you shouldn't make gamedesign around these technical limitations, since it actually is an issue in far more areas of the game than just the lab. So I just accepted the ability to lose Lab progress due to a DC (same to losing maps to crashes) or dying due to lag on a trap (I played since CB and desync killed me more often than lags on traps :P).

And now the lab for me is an area with a decent boss fight (I don't like some versions and ignore lab if they are up), some regular enemies to kill and a few traps every now and then and I honestly get a bit dispointed that there are actually so few traps in the lab. The lab is mostly just killing enemies like you do in the rest of the game. I mentioned before that Lab is propably 10% Traps and 90% normal PoE. I hate the fact you can't trade in the lab it is a huge nuissance, whenever I pm someone they are in lab right now (maybe that's just the new excuse).

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AceNightfire wrote:

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IceDeal wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

Then they should have added an alternative way to get AC points too, because there are people who are not interested in the lab gameplay. :P

They should also give an alternative way to get quests rewards because there a people who are not interested in doing quests.

Quests are done on the fly. It doesnt even take 2-3 minutes to finish a side quest (compared to the time you would have safed when not doing the quest) and there's literally no risk at all for any important side quest, since the "bosses" are no challange.

All I want is chain smashing mobs in maps. Why should I be forced to loose my time tracking some stupid monster who don't give me any xp or drops to get some mandatory skill points. Quests shouldn't be mandatory to develop my character.

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IceDeal wrote:

All I want is chain smashing mobs in maps. Why should I be forced to loose my time tracking some stupid monster who don't give me any xp or drops to get some mandatory skill points. Quests shouldn't be mandatory to develop my character.

they are just going to come back with but but but Traps!

If it is true traps are in the new maps then the shitstorm that is going to hit GGG will make this lab crusade look like a cancelled preseason game.

so youll post twice as much?

you guys are already pathetic - i do not know any stronger word for what you do.

when a lady says 'no' most people shed a tear and move on. but some will 'fight' and fight they do. i do not recall any example of a successful 'fight' but.. but maybe youll be the first one?