Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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It's ironic that they don't want to split the player base across several leagues (all of whom would be actively playing), but they are okay with something like this which splits the player base between people who play and people who won't.

Still not answered.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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It's ironic that they don't want to split the player base across several leagues (all of whom would be actively playing), but they are okay with something like this which splits the player base between people who play and people who won't.

Still not answered.

If people don't play, you wouldn't consider them players? And since they have enough players (like stated before their numbers have reason according to their statement) that is totally fine for them.

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Like I said earlier, if they would just host their own in-depth posts or make dev streams, or something to actively engage with the community, this would all be a lot better for everyone involved. I used to believe GGG cared enough to do something like this, but these days it feels like they don't.

They just recently did a huge Q&A, if that isn't engagement with the community I don't really know what is.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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It's ironic that they don't want to split the player base across several leagues (all of whom would be actively playing), but they are okay with something like this which splits the player base between people who play and people who won't.

Still not answered.

My guess is that it has to do with game design. Splitting up the playerbase across several leagues hurts "player interaction" and hurts players that like to be "social" in games. Splitting the playerbase in terms of the labyrinth, i have no idea why they think it's not bad. They probably try to cater to the Hardcore Mario players. They are over there though, in games like "I wanna be the boshy" etc, not PoE... Makes no sense.

because its ultimately the players themselves that are willingly splitting themselves up.

can lead a horse to water but if the poor bastard wants to die of thirst then i am having horse for dinner tonight.


not every build should be able to optimally run the lab. just like not every build can do atziri, and not every build can do uber atziri.

there are specific mechanics that are favoured in all cases . you can either take the tiny amount of effort it takes to convert to said mechanics. or dont.


honestly i feel this is mostly the result of ggg failing in the past to punish people for making flawed and squishy glass cannon builds that relied too much on a few broken mechanics to work.

like build abusing high hp pools leech and vaal pact to become immortal so long as they did damage.
or es builds that just had huge hp pools... and nothing else
or builds were 100% dependent on flasks.

Those builds are all overly specialized. and the price is they are shit when they arent doing what they are good at.


If your build sucks at the lab. either make it good, or pay some one to run you. because it doesnt cost alot
there are plenty willing to do it for you and you can easily get 7 -8% passive life regen on unique items alone.

get your ascendancy. get out and never go back. that is fine . I need to stress that . your character not being good at the lab and not wanting to run the lab with that character is FINE!. That is a good thing. it gives a reason to making lab runners , just like making a atziri runner or an uber atziri runner or a low map runner . or all of those other wonderful new character/ build opportunities

Because there is no real way to make the lab good for everyone without making it completely trivial and pointless.

at which point a ton of the reason why it is so attractive to run will evaporate.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

at which point a ton of the reason why it is so attractive to run will evaporate.

Isn't that like saying... air will evaporate?

:P

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

not every build should be able to optimally run the lab. just like not every build can do atziri, and not every build can do uber atziri.

there are specific mechanics that are favoured in all cases . you can either take the tiny amount of effort it takes to convert to said mechanics. or dont.


honestly i feel this is mostly the result of ggg failing in the past to punish people for making flawed and squishy glass cannon builds that relied too much on a few broken mechanics to work.

like build abusing high hp pools leech and vaal pact to become immortal so long as they did damage.
or es builds that just had huge hp pools... and nothing else
or builds were 100% dependent on flasks.

Those builds are all overly specialized. and the price is they are shit when they arent doing what they are good at.

I don't claim to be a labyrinth expert but, I've read a whole bunch. It appears to me that the labyrinth traps are much less balanced across different builds than Atziri, to use your example. There seems to be two attributes, life regen and movement speed, that can make labyrinth traps pretty easy. If a build doesn't have at least one of those two attributes then labyrinth becomes much more difficult. Of course, life regen rules in the labyrinth but I've played a character with high movement speed and the labyrinth was pretty easy. There was a post that said they played almost the same builds only one was 20% movement speed and the other was over 50% and the 50% was easy and the 20% one was significantly harder. I don't think the same is true for Atziri is it? I mean that there is more combinations of good builds with different attributes than just two that can beat Atziri. My assumption with this is that labyrinth is really poorly designed/balanced to be a good "test" or "gate" for something as universally important as ascendancy points.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Except there are safe spaces in it, did you seriously just neglect the fact that doing that room as intended has no safe spaces when you were just told how to do it properly ?

"It has no safe spaces, let me completely ignore the mechanics and complain about it!" - Literally you right now.



This is the secondary way to do it instead of stay in the safe space by following the blade sentry.

Also, no, blade sentries dont take 1 second to kill you, they take multiple seconds of you in it to kill you. The faster you move through it the less damage it does, just like the spinning spike logs.

This is Uber lab in hc today. I did Uber lab for the first time. Let's play find the safe space! Hint there isn't any, you just use quicksilver, run and pray to not die. The trap sequence ended 3 screens after this one. 10/10 would do it in hc again.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

not every build should be able to optimally run the lab. just like not every build can do atziri, and not every build can do uber atziri.

there are specific mechanics that are favoured in all cases . you can either take the tiny amount of effort it takes to convert to said mechanics. or dont.


honestly i feel this is mostly the result of ggg failing in the past to punish people for making flawed and squishy glass cannon builds that relied too much on a few broken mechanics to work.

like build abusing high hp pools leech and vaal pact to become immortal so long as they did damage.
or es builds that just had huge hp pools... and nothing else
or builds were 100% dependent on flasks.

Those builds are all overly specialized. and the price is they are shit when they arent doing what they are good at.

I don't claim to be a labyrinth expert but, I've read a whole bunch. It appears to me that the labyrinth traps are much less balanced across different builds than Atziri, to use your example. There seems to be two attributes, life regen and movement speed, that can make labyrinth traps pretty easy. If a build doesn't have at least one of those two attributes then labyrinth becomes much more difficult. Of course, life regen rules in the labyrinth but I've played a character with high movement speed and the labyrinth was pretty easy. There was a post that said they played almost the same builds only one was 20% movement speed and the other was over 50% and the 50% was easy and the 20% one was significantly harder. I don't think the same is true for Atziri is it? I mean that there is more combinations of good builds with different attributes than just two that can beat Atziri. My assumption with this is that labyrinth is really poorly designed/balanced to be a good "test" or "gate" for something as universally important as ascendancy points.

Another attribute helps, which is proper use of movement skills.


My pathfinder is probably my best character for running the buffed lab, my bow character might be able to do the first 3 labs quicker due to more movement speed and generally not needing to worry about defenses, but the BV character is the one more likely to be able to do the challenging one.

People say life regen is this needed and amazing thing in the lab, it simply isn't true. My pathfinder has 0 life regen (because VP). I could change the build around and get life regen and share my atziri's acuities with the character, but I haven't felt it really being necessary to do so and my playtime in the league is coming to a stop.

I don't recall the movement speed of the character, but it has harrier, 30ms boots and maybe a couple of movement passives in the tree, with phase run its probably like 100ms or so and due to skill duration in my tree and the increased skill effect duration gem I can chain it back to back, with or without frenzy charges, assuming I dont stop to cast BV along the way (aka interrupt it)



As for the comparison to atziri I don't think that is the right line of thinking, while atziri is a set of various challenging mods, the content was designed before players got this much power. People can beat atziri with positioning and technique or they can just destroy her with insane DPS.


Who says the lab needs to be a test or a benchmark for a build? Its the challenge required to earn the AC points. Its not like the content is impossible for really any build, not only because it doesn't have to be done solo, but because you don't have to let the boss enrage, you can plan for the various challenges and unless you absolutely have to run it right when it resets or masters change you can go into the fight knowing what challenge awaits you.

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Pyrokar wrote:

This is Uber lab in hc today. I did Uber lab for the first time. Let's play find the safe space! Hint there isn't any, you just use quicksilver, run and pray to not die. The trap sequence ended 3 screens after this one. 10/10 would do it in hc again.

The spiked traps alternate, those that aren't up now, will go up when the ones that are up now go down. You can see the timing and avoid the traps that do damage. The new trap, which provide the curse auras can be killed from range. Its the one really punishing anti melee mechanic they added, but you can still find ways to kill them from range if you need to.

It looks like at the top there by that temp chains aura there is a spot with no spikes to assess the next series of traps\challenge.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

This is Uber lab in hc today. I did Uber lab for the first time. Let's play find the safe space! Hint there isn't any, you just use quicksilver, run and pray to not die. The trap sequence ended 3 screens after this one. 10/10 would do it in hc again.

The spiked traps alternate, those that aren't up now, will go up when the ones that are up now go down. You can see the timing and avoid the traps that do damage. The new trap, which provide the curse auras can be killed from range. Its the one really punishing anti melee mechanic they added, but you can still find ways to kill them from range if you need to.

It looks like at the top there by that temp chains aura there is a spot with no spikes to assess the next series of traps\challenge.

Nope sry, where there arent any timed spike traps, there were trigger spike traps with sentries flying on top of them and the sentries fly up until the end of the room including over that ledge you say has no spikes.

Seriously, run and pray gameplay on hc. Uber izzaro was nothing for my build but 2sec on a trap and i am dead. Great design.