Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

Hey all,

It seems like the discussion is moving down a less desirable path, it appears that everyone's opinions are different from one another, and each side has shared their view points with clarity several times.

However, please refrain from targeting one another and please go back to the topic at hand in which OP has originally expressed.

Can we get a new subforum called Labyrinth Feedback just like for Awakening Beta Invites? It's hard to keep track of the 200 other threads I might like to peruse

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

Hey all,

It seems like the discussion is moving down a less desirable path, it appears that everyone's opinions are different from one another, and each side has shared their view points with clarity several times.

However, please refrain from targeting one another and please go back to the topic at hand in which OP has originally expressed.

The topic goes no where every single time Melissa, thats the thing. Theyre intentionally going full circle in arguing.

There isnt any progression with the argument when one side has zero intentions of changing their views or even addressing facts of the matter.

Its a trend of every single labyrinth thread.

Original Arguement > Counter Argument > Argues Original Argument > Counter Argument again > Bait reactions > Hope for anyone defending labyrinth to get probated

Its a never ending cycle which is why people in labyrinth threads actual intention is nothing more than trying to get a rise out of people to probate them. Then after that happens they just go and on and say "hah, probated, i won the argument!"

Also, i agree with what drake said, please make a separate thread for them to post in because legitimately good complaints are getting filtered out because of this labyrinth spam.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

Hey all,

It seems like the discussion is moving down a less desirable path, it appears that everyone's opinions are different from one another, and each side has shared their view points with clarity several times.

However, please refrain from targeting one another and please go back to the topic at hand in which OP has originally expressed.

The topic goes no where every single time Melissa, thats the thing. Theyre intentionally going full circle in arguing.

There isnt any progression with the argument when one side has zero intentions of changing their views or even addressing facts of the matter.

Its a trend of every single labyrinth thread.

Original Arguement > Counter Argument > Argues Original Argument > Counter Argument again > Bait reactions > Hope for anyone defending labyrinth to get probated

Its a never ending cycle which is why people in labyrinth threads actual intention is nothing more than trying to get a rise out of people to probate them. Then after that happens they just go and on and say "hah, probated, i won the argument!"

Also, i agree with what drake said, please make a separate thread for them to post in because legitimately good complaints are getting filtered out because of this labyrinth spam.

Tin, could you just stop here please? You didn't help at all keeping the discussion polite in the past few pages and now you're making it look like the lab-haters are the ones who have no arguments, circle around and use bait-tactics to get lab-defender on probation, while the same can be said about the lab-defenders. Just go 2 pages back and look at the animated memes you have posted, without any content in that post at all. Don't you think that's kinda provoking? You are part of your above mentioned problems without knowing it, I guess.

Both sides have extreme people who use the same arguments and counter-arguments over and over again. Both sides kinda circle around in this discussion and both sides also had (good) arguments why lab (or the way how to get AC points) should change or not change. Both sides explained why they personally like or dont like the lab. And I dont think that it is useless to discuss this topic anymore, because I see new arguments like everyday between all the troll posts. Just becuase there's more quantity then quality right now doesnt mean quality posts do not come up from time to time.

That said, Melissa kinda told you the rest: GGG is reading this and they want this discussion. If it will change something in the end is a different matter, but at least it's not a wasted effort like you try to make it look like.

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

We do ask players to add to the discussion if the there is already an existing thread catering to their opinions.

Please don’t take our silence for inattention, and please do post more to share your thoughts (without attacking each other).

@ACE - Theyre asking you to keep it to one thread, not spam as many threads as humanly possible.

And it doesnt help your case when people like Regulator are literally going around telling people to spam create them either.

They recently locked a handful last time and told people already to keep it to the existing threads but you guys are completely ignoring the moderators and doing it anyways.

Proof of being told to do so below, im pretty sure there are other examples but these two were easily accessible because theyre fairly new.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1702171/page/2

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1702859

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

...Please don’t take our silence for inattention...

Can you at least tell us which side is winning the argument? lol :)

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

So let me see if I understand this correctly. An arpg can have traps, but it can't be all about traps. So if an arpg becomes more about traps then it becomes about killing monsters, Then it becomes another genre, and can no longer be called an arpg?

It's the perceived focus that matters (in my opinion of course). If players have the feeling the content is more focused around traps then killing stuff, then the traps are the defining feature of the lab and aRPG never had a focus on traps. If, however, players feel like killing stuff is the primary focus of the lab, then this is the defining feature of the lab. Since there are dozens of threads complaing about the traps for several reasons, it is safe to say that for many players, the traps are the defining feature. They dont perceive the lab as an aRPG and more like a "plattformer"-game within poe.

So my personal conclusion is: Some players have the skills to easily rush through the lab. They dont perceive the traps as big hindrances and therefore dont care much for them. But it's still entertaining enough for them. Those players will usually dont perceive the trap-focus I have mentioned above. But those who dont like the traps - either because they lack the skill or because they find it boring - do perceive that trap-focus. In the end that means, for some this feels like classic poe with some traps, for others this feels like a completely different game/genre. And this could be the reason why it is so hard for lab-lovers to understand lab-haters: They perceive the lab in a completely different way.

So whether or not this game has turned into frogger is subjective.

Someone who likes the lab should go into it and do a trap to mob ratio, so we can see what ratio of traps constitute a game losing it's arpg title.

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Xtorma wrote:

So whether or not this game has turned into frogger is subjective.

Someone who likes the lab should go into it and do a trap to mob ratio, so we can see what ratio of traps constitute a game losing it's arpg title.

It's not the whole game, part of it. Not seeing the ARPG debate really, we can call PoE whatever we want, does not matter to me what genre it is as long as I am killing monsters in numbers, take the loot and virgins. The lab part of PoE does not have the PoE feeling to me at all hence me being on the "lab haters" side so to speak. I am talking about traps here and people calling this part of game frogger and mario do have some base to do so. You must see at least some resemblance here, right? Jumping from one place to another, trying to avoid things coming at you and waiting in spots for occasion to run. And that is basically it.
Strangely, I like the Izaro fight even with traps. They do add to the difficulty there and keep you on your toes but there's the difference, I actually fight something. I battle a badass boss and that is where my joy of playing PoE comes from - having a go at monsters and swimming in their blood (no swimming expansion for PoE please).

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Xtorma wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

So let me see if I understand this correctly. An arpg can have traps, but it can't be all about traps. So if an arpg becomes more about traps then it becomes about killing monsters, Then it becomes another genre, and can no longer be called an arpg?

It's the perceived focus that matters (in my opinion of course). If players have the feeling the content is more focused around traps then killing stuff, then the traps are the defining feature of the lab and aRPG never had a focus on traps. If, however, players feel like killing stuff is the primary focus of the lab, then this is the defining feature of the lab. Since there are dozens of threads complaing about the traps for several reasons, it is safe to say that for many players, the traps are the defining feature. They dont perceive the lab as an aRPG and more like a "plattformer"-game within poe.

So my personal conclusion is: Some players have the skills to easily rush through the lab. They dont perceive the traps as big hindrances and therefore dont care much for them. But it's still entertaining enough for them. Those players will usually dont perceive the trap-focus I have mentioned above. But those who dont like the traps - either because they lack the skill or because they find it boring - do perceive that trap-focus. In the end that means, for some this feels like classic poe with some traps, for others this feels like a completely different game/genre. And this could be the reason why it is so hard for lab-lovers to understand lab-haters: They perceive the lab in a completely different way.

So whether or not this game has turned into frogger is subjective.

Someone who likes the lab should go into it and do a trap to mob ratio, so we can see what ratio of traps constitute a game losing it's arpg title.

Like I said: My conclusion for now is that the ratio isn't that important. What's important is how players feel like and what they perceive as the focus when doing the lab. Even if we do count monsters/traps now, there will be people agreeing that this ratio does indicate a trap focus, while others will say it isn't.

But I think the lab-defenders should accept that lab-haters obviously perceive the lab focus in a completely different way then the lab-defenders.