Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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gathor wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

So whether or not this game has turned into frogger is subjective.

Someone who likes the lab should go into it and do a trap to mob ratio, so we can see what ratio of traps constitute a game losing it's arpg title.

It's not the whole game, part of it. Not seeing the ARPG debate really, we can call PoE whatever we want, does not matter to me what genre it is as long as I am killing monsters in numbers, take the loot and virgins. The lab part of PoE does not have the PoE feeling to me at all hence me being on the "lab haters" side so to speak. I am talking about traps here and people calling this part of game frogger and mario do have some base to do so. You must see at least some resemblance here, right? Jumping from one place to another, trying to avoid things coming at you and waiting in spots for occasion to run. And that is basically it.
Strangely, I like the Izaro fight even with traps. They do add to the difficulty there and keep you on your toes but there's the difference, I actually fight something. I battle a badass boss and that is where my joy of playing PoE comes from - having a go at monsters and swimming in their blood (no swimming expansion for PoE please).

Exactly! fighting Izaro is great fun. It is ARPG gameplay. The focus is on Izaro not traps. It is arpg gameplay with traps. The rest of the labyrinth though is irritating, boring, tedious, and not fun because of the trap gameplay, which makes it more like Frogger or Mario than wonderful PoE gameplay that I love. I note here that this was a comparison of labyrinth to Frogger was made by an experienced gamer.

Well, you know. As long as you can nit-pick irrelevant details, the entire argument automatically fails, amirite? It basically boils down to the people who like Lab can't let people who don't have a game where they don't have to do things they don't like--except that was entirely the case until Lab. Then I have some punkass kid trying to say he knows games better than I do while using a Straw Man fallacy to make said claim? Bullshit. Since he has nothing of value to add to any conversation he's in, and he's possibly just an alt of Fruz (sounds just like him), he's the 2nd person to make it to my ignore list.

But I still think it's funny that Lab defenders can't address this point.

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It's ironic that they don't want to split the player base across several leagues (all of whom would be actively playing), but they are okay with something like this which splits the player base between people who play and people who won't.

Seems like GGG doesn't even know what to do about this, and they just want to sweep it under the rug like everything is okay. It's not.

I skipped the last pages but omg so much nonsense it's ridiculous.

Path of Exile is a GAME.
People wanting to fit it into their own definitions of what a game should be is ridiculous and pathetic at best.

Path of Exile is game and is what it is, period.
People here have absolutely no right to claim what it should or should not be, none.


PS : PoE has only cities ( and ho now ) as "safe" space until GGG decides that maybe a hord of monsters invades it or anything, Wraeclast is no safe place, deal with it.

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Fruz wrote:

I skipped the last pages but omg so much nonsense it's ridiculous.

Path of Exile is a GAME.
People wanting to fit it into their own definitions of what a game should be is ridiculous and pathetic at best.

Path of Exile is game and is what it is, period.
People here have absolutely no right to claim what it should or should not be, none.


PS : PoE has only cities ( and ho now ) as "safe" space until GGG decides that maybe a hord of monsters invades it or anything, Wraeclast is no safe place, deal with it.

Everyone here has the absolute right to their own opinions. Whether that opinion is that labyrinth is fun or not fun. Even people that may wrongly think we don't have a right to our own opinions still can hold that opinion!

There is a difference between :
"I think that PoE would be better with x and y like this."

and

"Poe should have x and y like this"


( One could argue that the second one is just being a d**k though )

Thank you for explaining.

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Fruz wrote:

There is a difference between :
"I think that PoE would be better with x and y like this."

and

"Poe should have x and y like this"


( One could argue that the second one is just being a d**k though )

There is a difference between should and must. Only a very few people have said the lab MUST change. Most of the lab-haters they it SHOULD change, because poe is and was always about character progression and if you decide to add content with completely new gameplay, then at least make it optional, because you can never know if you coreplayerbase likes that new approach.

Let me explain: No one hates the lap itself, they only hate that they are forced to do it in order to progress with their characters. And not only once, you have to do it 4 times and each time (difficulty) it gets even more annoying for those who dont enjoy this gameplay. Now if there would be an alternative way to get your AC points (like fighting Izaro without having to do the whole trap-gameplay), no one would complain about the lab.

Maybe they should just treat it like trials, and only make you do it once per season, then it can still be behind Malachi as an additional requirement--so new characters still have to go through game progression instead of just starting with 6 AP, and they can keep the last 2 in Uber Lab--but it's hard to complain about only having to run it a few times if you don't really like the content, and still having access to most of what it is people actually run it for. Hint: It's not the Lab itself.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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Melissa_GGG wrote:

Hey all,

It seems like the discussion is moving down a less desirable path, it appears that everyone's opinions are different from one another, and each side has shared their view points with clarity several times.

However, please refrain from targeting one another and please go back to the topic at hand in which OP has originally expressed.

The topic goes no where every single time Melissa, thats the thing. Theyre intentionally going full circle in arguing.

There isnt any progression with the argument when one side has zero intentions of changing their views or even addressing facts of the matter.

Its a trend of every single labyrinth thread.

Original Arguement > Counter Argument > Argues Original Argument > Counter Argument again > Bait reactions > Hope for anyone defending labyrinth to get probated

Its a never ending cycle which is why people in labyrinth threads actual intention is nothing more than trying to get a rise out of people to probate them. Then after that happens they just go and on and say "hah, probated, i won the argument!"

Also, i agree with what drake said, please make a separate thread for them to post in because legitimately good complaints are getting filtered out because of this labyrinth spam.

OK, I'm going to be blunt. This poor-me-I-am-such-a-victim post is hilariously ironic in light of its source. When I try to think of posters who most frequently berate others, resort to personal insults, and engage in other tactics usually considered troll-ish by the community and which generally lower the quality of the discussion in the thread, you are quite literally the second person I think of, Tin_Foil_Hat. And upon further reflection, I still can only think of one other poster who I've seen engage in this kind of behavior more than you.

On topic:

The discussion absolutely needs to continue, because if it doesn't Chris and others on the team for whom the Labyrinth is their baby (perhaps) are likely to assume the issue was just one that needed to blow over, like other issues, and that it no longer warrants so much attention.

Any suggestion that GGG doesn't care at all is quite frankly ridiculous. I have a humongous thread compiled over years since beta filled with bug reports and ideas, some of them extremely obscure, and most of which have been addressed and/or fixed by subsequent patches. You might argue that it's complete coincidence, and that I simply think similarly to their team, but you'd be giving me far too much credit (and not enough to them) to say so. Furthermore, they will even engage you in direct communication, if you ask nicely. Usually I don't, because that's why the forums exist.

GGG moderators generally stay silent for a reason. Anyone who doesn't know what that reason is, I am happy to explain it to you, but it is most assuredly deliberate and it is most assuredly not apathy.

I've heard that reason, and it's a lame one. They are so afraid of coming across as ignorant/dishonest/wrong that they don't consider just being upfront instead. They may not believe that passive silence is anything but neutral, but when you're on the receiving end of it, it's mostly negative (for many people), and they don't seem to understand that. Like I said earlier, if they would just host their own in-depth posts or make dev streams, or something to actively engage with the community, this would all be a lot better for everyone involved. I used to believe GGG cared enough to do something like this, but these days it feels like they don't. Of course they care about the game, but I'm talking about their community, and there comes a point where you won't have much of a game when you don't have much of a community.

Unless they are planning a shift to offline single player...