Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Ah, yeah i thought so.

See the thing about "Frogger" is you have one life if you soo much as touch anything that would kill you. Not the case for Labyrinth. The point could be made if any trap oneshot you but they dont.

Yeah that trap room has plenty of space to move around. You dont even have to follow the sentries you can run through them or hop over them and completely avoid the damage.

Funny. First you say there is no trap layout with safe spaces and then there's proof that there is one and you come with arguments like "But in frogger everything kills you with one touch"... The thing is: If you make one mistake in the spiketrap+blade sentry as a squishy build, you will die quite easily if you dont log out. Many of the mobility skills do not work when the spikes are up and a sentry drone can kill you in 1 second if you dont have any life reg at all (and there are builds like shadows with vaal pact). And a spike trap also does 2/3 damage to squishy builds without life reg, so this can easily lead to panic clicks/movement.

Some people just dont enjoy this kind of gameplay or are just terribly bad at it. I understand that there are people who do enjoy it and are good at it and I really dont want to take away the lab, but at least offer an alternative way for those who dont enjoy it. It doesnt even need to be easy like setting them behind Malachai. If they can figure out a hard way, compareable to lab difficulty but more in line with the classic gameplay, I'm all for it!

I'm just saying new content shouldn't be forced upon the players when a big part of the community thinks "Damn, have to do the lab again now... Lets get it over with..." as soon as they hit the level range for the lab. Content should be fun and if the content is designed in a way that only a part of the community will (and can) really enjoy it, then it should be optional. Where's the problem with that? Why is it so hard to understand that many people just dont like it? Do the reasons really matter that much? Isn't it enough that people just want to enjoy the game like they did before Ascendency? It's not like we (the lab "haters") are trying to take the lab away from you... :/

Except there are safe spaces in it, did you seriously just neglect the fact that doing that room as intended has no safe spaces when you were just told how to do it properly ?

"It has no safe spaces, let me completely ignore the mechanics and complain about it!" - Literally you right now.



This is the secondary way to do it instead of stay in the safe space by following the blade sentry.

Also, no, blade sentries dont take 1 second to kill you, they take multiple seconds of you in it to kill you. The faster you move through it the less damage it does, just like the spinning spike logs.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Except there are safe spaces in it, did you seriously just neglect the fact that doing that room as intended has no safe spaces when you were just told how to do it properly ?

"It has no safe spaces, let me completely ignore the mechanics and complain about it!" - Literally you right now.

First: Yea, ignore the rest of my post

Second: A safe space is a place, where a trap can't reach you. That means you could stay there for 1 hour without dying. In that trap-layout however, that's just no possible. You either have to run through, or go over the spiketrap, walk in the way where the sentry drone flies until the next line of spikes walls are down and keep going then until you went over the 6 rows of spikes traps and sentry drones.

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Except there are safe spaces in it, did you seriously just neglect the fact that doing that room as intended has no safe spaces when you were just told how to do it properly ?

"It has no safe spaces, let me completely ignore the mechanics and complain about it!" - Literally you right now.

First: Yea, ignore the rest of my post

Second: A safe space is a place, where a trap can't reach you. That means you could stay there for 1 hour without dying. In that trap-layout however, that's just no possible. You either have to run through, or go over the spiketrap, walk in the way where the sentry drone flies until the next line of spikes walls are down and keep going then until you went over the 6 rows of spikes traps and sentry drones.

Cheeeerrrry picking now out of desperation.

Safe space is wherever you dont take damage from traps.

Edit - Yes, i did ignore the rest of the post. Subjective opinions arent objective facts. I dont care if people personally dislike labyrinth or not. Im looking at the facts of the matter, which is, nothing is wrong about the labyrinth and the only two legitimate complaints that arent subjective opinions is the fact that Disconnecting or Crashing forces you to restart it, both of which are entirely technical issues and theres no way to implement a recovery system that people wont abuse.

Oh and from the hardcore perspective, when you create a character it literally say "characters will not be recovered if you die to lag, disconnects, etc", the technical side on hardcore is quite literally not arguable because you signed up for it knowing that.

"

mark1030 wrote:

"

AceNightfire wrote:

Removing the AC points from lab wouldn't let me stop hating the lab.

That was the point I was trying to make. All the complaints are pretty much the same complaint. Here are your 7 listed complaints:
1. Traps
2. Performance issues (which I conceded was a valid concern)
3. AC points require it
4. Traps
5. Traps
6. Dangerous and might die
7. Boring

All except 2 and 3 are subjective and boil down to not liking the gameplay in it. Some of your complaints are even contradictory. Seems like boring and dangerous are opposites to me.

First: Since 2 and 3 are are valid reasons, I think it's safe to say that people are not just hating the lap because they hate it.

Second: Since lap is all about traps, it's obvious that many reasons boil down to them. The reasons WHY people hate the traps can be different however. Just because the reasons 1, 4 and 5 are about traps doesnt mean they are the same reason (it's only the same topic).

Third: Just because something is dangerous doesnt mean it cant be boring. It just means it's boring content for me that is also dangerous on top. I have to do something dangerous which bores the hell out of me, which I consider the worst case in a game.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Safe space is wherever you dont take damage from traps.

You are the one cherry picking. I bring in an argument (trap squences without safe places), other people(!) bring you proof for the argument I gave and you just dont accept that and bring in a definition that doesnt exist and doesnt make sense. How can a place be called a safe space when you could die at that specific place if you would stand still? That's like saying a spiketrap would be a safe space, because the moment the spikes are down it is "safe". Or like saying a street is a safe space for your children as long as they avoid any cars that drive by... I guess you do understand how flawed your definition is, but I really wonder if you can just accept that now...

That said: It makes more sense to say a safe space is a place where you can stand without every dying, where no trap can reach you. And my described trap squence has no such safe place. Furthermore, there are also many trap sequences where it's not easy to see where you can stand without getting hit by traps and in some cases, the traps themselves are hard to see (lighting, ground texture-color, visual effects etc.).

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Safe space is wherever you dont take damage from traps.

You are the one cherry picking. I bring in an argument (trap squences without safe places), other people(!) bring you proof for the argument I gave and you just dont accept that and bring in a definition that doesnt exist and doesnt make sense. How can a place be called a safe space when you could die at that specific place if you would stand still? That's like saying a spiketrap would be a safe space, because the moment the spikes are down it is "safe". Or like saying a street is a safe space for your children as long as they avoid any cars that drive by... I guess you do understand how flawed your definition is, but I really wonder if you can just accept that now...

That said: It makes more sense to say a safe space is a place where you can stand without every dying, where no trap can reach you. And my described trap squence has no such safe place. Furthermore, there are also many trap sequences where it's not easy to see where you can stand without getting hit by traps and in some cases, the traps themselves are hard to see (lighting, ground texture-color, visual effects etc.).

No, im not cherry picking. lol

"Its not safe space unless i can sit here and take no damage at all" - You

Thats not what safe space is.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Except there are safe spaces in it, did you seriously just neglect the fact that doing that room as intended has no safe spaces when you were just told how to do it properly ?

"It has no safe spaces, let me completely ignore the mechanics and complain about it!" - Literally you right now.

First: Yea, ignore the rest of my post

Second: A safe space is a place, where a trap can't reach you. That means you could stay there for 1 hour without dying. In that trap-layout however, that's just no possible. You either have to run through, or go over the spiketrap, walk in the way where the sentry drone flies until the next line of spikes walls are down and keep going then until you went over the 6 rows of spikes traps and sentry drones.

Cheeeerrrry picking now out of desperation.

Safe space is wherever you dont take damage from traps.

Edit - Yes, i did ignore the rest of the post. Subjective opinions arent objective facts. I dont care if people personally dislike labyrinth or not. Im looking at the facts of the matter, which is, nothing is wrong about the labyrinth and the only two legitimate complaints that arent subjective opinions is the fact that Disconnecting or Crashing forces you to restart it, both of which are entirely technical issues and theres no way to implement a recovery system that people wont abuse.

Talks about cherry-picking...

"

See the thing about "Frogger" is you have one life if you soo much as touch anything that would kill you. Not the case for Labyrinth. The point could be made if any trap oneshot you but they dont.

Total hypocrisy. Really hard to take this guy seriously.

---

"

mark1030 wrote:

That was the point I was trying to make. All the complaints are pretty much the same complaint. Here are your 7 listed complaints:
1. Traps
2. Performance issues (which I conceded was a valid concern)
3. AC points require it
4. Traps
5. Traps
6. Dangerous and might die
7. Boring

All except 2 and 3 are subjective and boil down to not liking the gameplay in it. Some of your complaints are even contradictory. Seems like boring and dangerous are opposites to me.

You can try to oversimplify it and attach whatever fallacies you want, but the bottom line is that it's not okay to put something so important to character development behind something so divisive (and not optional). Lots of players are quitting because of this--as has been testified to across many, many threads--and a f2p model requires that it gets as many players as it can to be sustainable. GGG is shooting themselves in the foot by leaving this as is, and it doesn't matter if you think it's fine or if you dislike the complaints against it.

There's something else that the people who oppose Lab changes haven't considered too. The people who leave because of it, and whose friends leave for the same reasons, will tell people who haven't played the game all the things that made them quit. Word of mouth is how f2p indie games even compete against AAA giants, and something this divisive will indirectly prevent players from coming to the game in the first place.

It's ironic that they don't want to split the player base across several leagues (all of whom would be actively playing), but they are okay with something like this which splits the player base between people who play and people who won't.

---

"

NeroNoah wrote:

Labyrinth complaints will go the way of experience penalty threads.

If you mean to imply that GGG isn't going to do anything about it and just wait for the complaints to go away, that's an awful outcome for the game, because it means they will have lost a ton of players.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Safe space is wherever you dont take damage from traps.

You are the one cherry picking. I bring in an argument (trap squences without safe places), other people(!) bring you proof for the argument I gave and you just dont accept that and bring in a definition that doesnt exist and doesnt make sense. How can a place be called a safe space when you could die at that specific place if you would stand still? That's like saying a spiketrap would be a safe space, because the moment the spikes are down it is "safe". Or like saying a street is a safe space for your children as long as they avoid any cars that drive by... I guess you do understand how flawed your definition is, but I really wonder if you can just accept that now...

That said: It makes more sense to say a safe space is a place where you can stand without every dying, where no trap can reach you. And my described trap squence has no such safe place. Furthermore, there are also many trap sequences where it's not easy to see where you can stand without getting hit by traps and in some cases, the traps themselves are hard to see (lighting, ground texture-color, visual effects etc.).

No, im not cherry picking. lol

"Its not safe space unless i can sit here and take no damage at all" - You

Thats not what safe space is.

Oh really? Ok, lets go along with the definition thing. I tried to google what a "safe space" is. The best definition I found so far, that would kinda fit in our situation, is this one:

http://safespacenetwork.tumblr.com/Safespace

"A Safe Space is a place where anyone can relax and be able to fully express, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome, or unsafe on account of biological sex, race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, cultural background, religious affiliation, age, or physical or mental ability."

Sadly I didnt find a definition of safe space for games (I really wonder where you got your definition from). But what this definition tells is, that a safe space must guarentee the person to be able to relax and that the person doesnt have to fear any kind of threat. In our case, that would be traps. So if I stay in your so called "safe space" the sentry drone would run over me and kill me. I HAVE to move in that trap layout, or I die (unless Im a juggernaut). You are free to post definitions from other pages as well, good luck with that.

"Total hypocrisy" loled

Do you even know what that word means ? Clearly you dont if you think thats hypocrisy. Meanwhile here you are ignoring facts. Maybe you should actually play frogger before giving the shitty copy pasta meme comparison.