Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

The problem with this statement though bro, is this isnt a finished product, you cant say what does or doesnt belong in "the original" game because the game itself is under constant development and it isnt a finished product.

Thats like saying that CB where you took 10 minutes to kill one pack and had the shittiest gear imaginable at all times is "classic path of exile" and soo nothing currently belongs in the game.

The game was about killing stuff right from the start for many many years by now. Just because the speed shifted a little bit doesnt mean the basic gameplay changed. The gameplay was perfectly in line with the whole aRPG genre. The whole trap-gameplay on the other side is something completely different which was never seen in an aRPG before, because it's a different genre.

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mark1030 wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

But all those "separate" complaints are the same complaint. Would anybody complain about ascendency points gated behind the lab if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about reward structure if they didn't dislike something about playing in the lab? Would anybody complain about difficulty or traps or anything else on your list if they liked the lab? All your complaints boil down to one thing, and that's a dislike of playing in the lab. You're trying to make it fancier than it really is.

You are reversing the cause and effect here.

Those complaints (the cause) are why people hate the Lab (the effect)--not the other way around. You can't just intrinsically hate the Lab without having reasons for it. The "why" is the reason these posts keep coming up.

I don't think so. I think the labe hate reason is they hate doing the lab, not those other things. For example, one complaint is that the ascendency points are gated behind it. If GGG gave an alternate way to get those points, would those people suddenly like doing the lab? Would they ever do it if they didn't feel they had to? No. So it's their hate of the lab that makes them hate the lab. Even if they removed any reason for doing it, those people would still hate it and would not do it. They wouldn't complain as much about it, but they'd still hate the lab. Similarly, if they made the lab something else that people liked, they could gate anything they wanted behind it. So I stand by my simplification that the cause of the lab hate is that people hate doing the lab. Because if they liked it, none of those other reasons would exist. Cause: they hate running the lab. Effect: they hate they can't get what the lab offers another way so become more vocal about it.

This only addresses the non performance lab haters though. I still think it's a problem when people can't do the lab because they disconnect and can't continue where they left off.

This doesnt make any sense at all... I have good reasons why I hate the lab, so that's contradictory to your statement that people hate the lab because they hate it...

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AceNightfire wrote:

This doesnt make any sense at all... I have good reasons why I hate the lab, so that's contradictory to your statement that people hate the lab because they hate it...

Ok, what are your reasons? Do they have anything to do with what happens between the time you enter the lab until the time you leave it? Or do they have to do with what you get at the end? If they removed what you get at the end, would you suddenly like the part between entering the lab and leaving it?

My problem with the lab comes down to endurance. I don't have it. I can bike 150 miles without breaking a sweat. Not a physical issue. It's that I can't play for as long as most younger players without getting dizzy.

The trials in the maps... can't do them. I have found that I just get too tired after running a map to bother with them.

The lab has made longer play sessions mandatory for advancement. I'm not up to it.

I hate the labyrinth because trap style gameplay is boring tedious and not fun. It is irritating gameplay. I really don't understand the logic of trying to turn it into a tautology. There are multiple reasons that people hate playing the labyrinth. GGG made the bad decision to flush the great PoE gameplay down the toilet when designing the labyrinth. If people didn't like the great PoE gameplay then they wouldn't be playing PoE. They then insert a new style gameplay into the game. Not everyone is going to like PoE gameplay. Not everyone is going to like trap gameplay. The mistake in the GGG design is that they gated ascendancy points behind a new gameplay that not everyone was going to like even if they like PoE gameplay. It was really a very stupid mistake.

i like the labyrinth trailer :D
it pretty much tells you that it isnt for everyone

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

The problem with this statement though bro, is this isnt a finished product, you cant say what does or doesnt belong in "the original" game because the game itself is under constant development and it isnt a finished product.

Thats like saying that CB where you took 10 minutes to kill one pack and had the shittiest gear imaginable at all times is "classic path of exile" and soo nothing currently belongs in the game.

The game was about killing stuff right from the start for many many years by now. Just because the speed shifted a little bit doesnt mean the basic gameplay changed. The gameplay was perfectly in line with the whole aRPG genre. The whole trap-gameplay on the other side is something completely different which was never seen in an aRPG before, because it's a different genre.

Its not a different genre, ive said this a million times before multiple other arpgs have traps in them, but thats still besides the point. The game is an unfinished product and we have no right to say what is and isnt path of exile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy0HvoYYeM

Torchlight 2

And of course one of the most popular arpgs to exist, diablo has them.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

The problem with this statement though bro, is this isnt a finished product, you cant say what does or doesnt belong in "the original" game because the game itself is under constant development and it isnt a finished product.

Thats like saying that CB where you took 10 minutes to kill one pack and had the shittiest gear imaginable at all times is "classic path of exile" and soo nothing currently belongs in the game.

The game was about killing stuff right from the start for many many years by now. Just because the speed shifted a little bit doesnt mean the basic gameplay changed. The gameplay was perfectly in line with the whole aRPG genre. The whole trap-gameplay on the other side is something completely different which was never seen in an aRPG before, because it's a different genre.

Its not a different genre, ive said this a million times before multiple other arpgs have traps in them, but thats still besides the point. The game is an unfinished product and we have no right to say what is and isnt path of exile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy0HvoYYeM

Torchlight 2

And of course one of the most popular arpgs to exist, diablo has them.

It is a different genre, I've said this a million times before, a few traps here and there do not make it trap gameplay. It is still arpg gameplay with some traps in it. When you have screens full of traps then the gameplay is trap gameplay not arpg gameplay. This is a different genre, more like mario or frogger.

We are individuals and have every right to our opinion no matter what you say or think. When a game we love adds content that is horrible, tedious, irritating, and not fun then we have every right to come here to the Feedback and Suggestions forum and share our opinion no matter what you say or think.

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mark1030 wrote:

Ok, what are your reasons? Do they have anything to do with what happens between the time you enter the lab until the time you leave it? Or do they have to do with what you get at the end? If they removed what you get at the end, would you suddenly like the part between entering the lab and leaving it?

Reasons:

1. I dont like dodging traps which ignore parts of my character build.
2. I dont like it because I need a perfect stable internet connection for 30 minutes to get through lab unharmed (=without being killed)
3. I dont like that the lab offers extremely different content that is forced on me, since I cant ignore AC points
4. I dont like it because I dont think this kind of trap-gameplay doesn't belong into a classic aRPG (PoE was the definition of being a classic aRPG)
5. I dont like it because I have to fight Izaro with a room full of traps that hurt like a truck if you're not playing a juggernaut.
6. I dont like it because the whole lab is just to risky for like 80% of the builds and that's why many people buy runs to get their AC points.
7. I dont like it because I always feel bored when doing the lab 30 minutes. 30 minutes I could spend being on a map and farm stuff and trying out my build. And I have to do it 4 times with each character I make, huray...

Hell, there are probably many more reasons, but those are enough I guess.

Removing the AC points from lab wouldn't let me stop hating the lab, but it would be perfectly optional content then. And this would enable me to ignore the lab completely and therefore it wouldn't be an issue for me anymore.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Its not a different genre, ive said this a million times before multiple other arpgs have traps in them, but thats still besides the point. The game is an unfinished product and we have no right to say what is and isnt path of exile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy0HvoYYeM

Torchlight 2

And of course one of the most popular arpgs to exist, diablo has them.

No ones saying that traps dont belong into aRPG. It's the way the traps are deployed. Sometimes rooms full of traps and you cant even see the ending. You cant predict the trap layout since you can't see them, so you have to go in and hope the trap layout ends very soon or that it is easy to predict while you're navigating through. Your video just shows a level with some scattered traps. Deadly, yes, but easily avoidable. That's the difference.

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Turtledove wrote:

It is a different genre, I've said this a million times before, a few traps here and there do not make it trap gameplay. It is still arpg gameplay with some traps in it. When you have screens full of traps then the gameplay is trap gameplay not arpg gameplay. This is a different genre, more like mario or frogger.

Can you link the paragraph in the International Association of Video Games bylaws that defines aRPG and sets a limit on the number of traps allowed to qualify for the genre?