Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!
" PoE and labyrinth? " I dont use the word fair in only this manner. Nor do I believe everybody else here does. Which is the point I was trying to make. Example: I play dodge/evasion build and (in this context of playing dodge/evasion) say "lab is unfair". What I mean then is "lab is discriminating vs dodge/evasion builds". So it is unfair not in a "game vs the player" sense but in a "armour build vs evasion build" sense. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" Yeah, if you wanted the most general definition you'd use the above and in that sense lab isn't unfair but we can't say it treats everyone equally either. Perhaps a better term to prevent misunderstanding would be unbalanced, because I don't think any of us can dispute that, it certainly is. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
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" The thread title is sitting at very near max title length. Make a suggestion and if it fits and relates the same then I'll use it. As for taking people off the list, if you want to go through everyone's posting history and try and figure out that the only thing someone ever complained about has been fixed then be my guest. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" Now that's a lie. Just a lowly standard player. May RNGesus be with you.
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" I basically agree with you. But speaking of the lab and HC/SC, The lab is equally fair to both, there is nothing unfair in the lab regarding HC, compared to SC. The lab's ruleset is the same. " People miss-use words all the time. Eventually, if it keeps being miss-used, the meaning can actually change, for good or bad ( most often bad imho, it's off-topic though ). As Raics described, the game is fair from one player to another ( so in a PvP perspective here ), all players follow the same rules, Wraeclast gives them the same obstacles. Having some obstacles easier for some builds than others could be considered somewhat unfair, but that is what makes the game interesting and building different char appealing. A good balancing state would put about the same amount/difficulty of obstacles in the way of every "well" built character imho. The game isn't "fair" to one single character, but fair from one character to another. We all know however that the overall balance isn't exactly amazing. And since evasion builds are likely not supposed to be as "tanky" as armourd build, it's probably actually fair : The whole games makes pure evasion not a good way to tank, the lab is no different. Your expectations might be a bit off here. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on May 25, 2017, 10:05:05 PM
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" And what does the person with zero respect from me claim has changed? Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" In my example I (deliberately) used "the lab" and not "the game". And this kind of mismatch is exactly what I was talking about: Your context for the use of "fair" here is "the game". My context in my hypothetical example was "the lab". So if you say "fair" and I say "unfair" we refer to different things. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" As already stated, I'd say it's harder for SC than the rest of the game because you can't zerg it, but isn't the only content like that. Maps also have a zerging limitation, it's just higher (or not if you're in a 6 man party'. But unfair in any way to HC - nope. " You aren't using that properly, can you still say lab is 'unfair' to EVA builds if we assume they move faster and their movement skills are executed faster? That's very important. Anyway, those are just balance factors, game rules in lab are the same for all builds. We could say it's unfair if traps were hitting some build for a fixed amount and others for percentage, if lab is unfair then elemental attacks or physical spells are also unfair. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics#7540 on May 26, 2017, 3:09:16 AM
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" You mean : the lab is as "unfair" as the game, so that's why so many people dislike it but they still like the game ? Nop, that one does not make any sense here, that's basically trying to find a meaningless excuse to try justifying something. But anyway, striclty speaking, the lab treats every player the same way : it's fair. Evasion included. The way evasion is working is likely how GGG intends it to be, and it applies for the lab too. Evasion allows you to dodge some of the traps, and is actually good against Izaro, fitting more ranged playstyle ( if pure ). So yeah, it's not unfair. From HC to SC ( or the other way around ) : ruleset is the same = fair. From one player to another : ruleset is the same = fair. The fairness that could be discussed is how it applies to all archetype globally equally, which is does correctly considering the level of customization imho ( evasion included here ). But, let's have a quick reminder of the original statement : " Here it's obviously what I just said before : "trying to find a meaningless excuse to try justifying something". "especially for Hardcore" clearly shows that. And there is of course nothing to support the "lab is not fair" here of course. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" And it again shows exactly what I meant: You assume a different context(evasion == faster) than me(no such "faster" assumption). So you may say "its fair" and I may say "its unfair". My example was hypothetical. I didnt want to make an overly general statement about evasion vs armour builds in lab. However to answer your question in a somewhat tangential manner: There is "no way" I would make an evasion/dodge build (without armour/regen/charges) lab runner in HC. "Everything is "unfair" (or "fair") in some way or another. You just need to look at it from a suitable perspective to find the "fair" (or the "unfair"). This is how I use the words "fair" and "unfair" == meaning depends on context/perspective. -- " What I meant doesnt even matter as it was a hypothetical example. I did however define it as "lab is discriminating vs dodge/evasion builds". My point is that I meant something other than what you mean if you use the word "fair". " I get the impression you dont (or dont want to) understand what I am saying. Another (more blatant) example: Somebody has random disconnects and says "lab is unfair" meaning it disadvantages people with bad connection. So the perspective/context for "fair" in this example is "people with good connection" vs "people with bad connection". " I was not (specifically) referring to this statement. I would have quoted it if that would have been my intent. I dont know what the poster means with "it isnt". Which is part of my point - using "fair" without making it properly clear what exactly is meant misleads. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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