Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

There is nothing about "unfair" about the lab

This pretty much confirms that you do not really understand what words like "fun" or "punishing" really mean, within the context of a gaming enviroment.

The difference here is probably that I know what I'm talking about and I am being pragmatic, I don't really care about your opinion and ad-hominem statements.

Fairness has nothing to do with fun, absolutely nothing.
Or maybe you do not actually know what it means.

And you just keep using words (adding new ones) that you don't understand.

Sure, keep thinking whatever you want, that is what delusional people often do anyway.

PS : you miss-using words is a fact that everyone can see here, simple as that.
"Insulting" as you said would be something that you did however, such irony is always sweet.

Honestly, no idea what are you talking about either. If anything, lab is more fair in regards to the whole HC/SC thing because you can't zerg it.

And a fair game isn't a hard requirement to have fun, I'm sure most of us have some extremely unfair games we enjoy for some reason.

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raics wrote:

Honestly, no idea what are you talking about either. If anything, lab is more fair in regards to the whole HC/SC thing because you can't zerg it.

And a fair game isn't a hard requirement to have fun, I'm sure most of us have some extremely unfair games we enjoy for some reason.

Dark Souls, anyone?

"Fair" is a matter of perspective. So if different people use this same word "fair" with a different perspective in mind they will be prone to disagree.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

You're the ones crying bullshit it's up to you to go thru the list and prove one by one they are either nonexistent or making the 5 minute content of the first lab shorter matters.

Tried that, I'd have better luck trying to reason with my cat though.

Shovelcut is not telling the truth. Shovelcut hasn't posted about going through the account name list. He went through the thread list and tried to change the criteria for adding things to the thread list. Specifically saying that a Chadwick thread shouldn't be on the list. The OP of the thread was clearly complaining about a crash in the labyrinth. Chadwick is the most prolific author of threads in the list. The criteria for inclusion in the thread list is very clear.

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I've been keeping a list of the many threads that have been discussing problems with labyrinth (based on the OP) here in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

Shovelcut thought that instead of it being based on the simple reading of the OP it should be based on it being a "valid" problem.

He has a list of people who hate path of frogger for various reason. Case closed.

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

If calling out bullshit claims and questionable data collection methods is "undercutting Turtles message" then the message is severely flawed.

What seems to be flawed (for everyone questioning this thread) is your perception of its purpose\intent, which was clear from the beginning.

You're right, it was clear in the beginning because it was simply a record of all laby hate feedback threads. It evolved into something else, and the claims became something else.

The thread isn't what's being questioned. It's the methods and claims of the thread creator that is being questioned.

My methods and claims have not changed from the beginning. The thread list was and still is simply a record of all labyrinth problem/dislike threads (minus Izaro and Enchant threads). You have tried to change it into something else. Since I wasn't interested in your changes that would have required subjective evaluation and endless debate you got butt hurt.

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Zrevnur wrote:

"Fair" is a matter of perspective. So if different people use this same word "fair" with a different perspective in mind they will be prone to disagree.

Depends what we're talking about, in a PvP game it's usually called fair if both players or teams follow the same rules, chess is fair, football is fair, a fighting game round is fair if the matchup is even or both players use the same chars. In MOBAs it's more complicated because a lot of factors are involved, we probably couldn't call it fair even if both teams use characters of similar total power, it can't be absolutely fair but it can be fairish enough.

In PvE games 'unfair' is most commonly used for the 'situation a player can't react to under any circumstances'.
More broadly, some use it for the 'situation a player can't react to without prior knowledge' but that isn't entirely correct, it's just a common way to extend the learning curve and once you know what will happen it becomes fair, PoE is extremely guilty of this one but there are many examples of it, oldie nintendo platformers practically live by the trope.
One more common application is a setting where enemies are much stronger than a player. It's very common in shooters where a boss might kill you in one shot and it might take you a hundred to take it down, or in DnD games where everyone follows the same rules, but something like a dragon has much higher stats, Dark Souls is also a good example. However, this one can't be classified as truly 'unfair' either, it's just a type of balancing where the goal is to coach the player into overcoming the disparity by skill or tactical knowledge, the 'fun unfair'.

Unlike those examples, PoE is a 'true unfair' game, there are many situations where you can die without being realistically able to avoid it with skill or prevent it with knowledge. Lab is not one of those things, though.

Then maybe you should change the end of the thread title. It implies that people are in support of something (like changing the lab maybe? I have no idea since you are only providing a historical record and not trying to make a list of people who want change).. Just say over 870 people have had complaints about it. Let GGG go through the trouble of figuring out who's complaints were already addressed. I still don't get the point of leaving people on the list who had their problems fixed. Nothing says "listen to these people GGG" better than a list containing a bunch of names of people ggg already listened to and addressed.