When Chris says that lab haters are a minority, how right is he?
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raics wrote:
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miljan wrote:
Not lightly, but in places where that word is correct. As it is in this case. There was never ever a popular thread on reddit that said POE is a shit game. NEVER.
You shouldn't really leave yourself open like that, all anyone has to do now to push you into a corner is to find a popular negative thread. And it wouldn't matter one bit if it was one among thousands of positive ones, you'd still be an ass, don't make a practice out of it.
It would, but I know there is none that is popular or upvoted that says the game is shit. I 100% guarantee it. Not even back in from closed beta. The most negative thing you will find are part of PoE that people have problems with.
The player base is divided about trading / cruel / no self found leagues / etc ... It's normal, that doesn't mean it should receive special treatment because reddit it angry about it ...
Who besides ProjectPT said he dislike the lab ?
No, its not normal. This are all the problems that the game has and need to be improved and fixed. Some are coming like better trading. Cruel changes maybe, chris changed his mind lately, we will see. Leagues or better said custom paid leagues that community wants. All this things show there are problems with different parts of poe and that they actually need to be addressed at some point.
Who besides ProjectPT said he dislike the lab ? Couldn't read your answer.
And how can you possibly say that it isn't normal that the community is divided about many aspects of the game ? Are you some kind of totalitarian ?
Its not normal that community has problems about the things you posted, because all of those thing are the ones that game has problems with, and that need to be adresed. Lab is one additional problem, a new problem with the game, that was implemented, that also needs to be fixed now. You should implement more solutions and less new problems
I dont know the names of streamers that I watched.
Last edited by miljan#1261 on May 29, 2016, 6:44:59 PM
The player base is divided about trading / cruel / no self found leagues / etc ... It's normal, that doesn't mean it should receive special treatment because reddit it angry about it ...
Who besides ProjectPT said he dislike the lab ?
They dont have to publicly announce they dislike the labyrinth for this to be true. The same applies for those who like the labyrinth too.
Also you mentioned things that while there have been many conversations about them not a single one of those is labyrinth-scale-dividing, ill take that a step further and say they are not even dividing. Not even in the slightest. What do you even mean with trading is dividing? Cruel is dividing? SSF dividing? Rhetorical.
But there is a much more important question you should ask yourself, that this. Ill quote it cause it was stated before :
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innervation wrote:
if the lab were fun at its core, streamers would be streaming it and watchers would be watching it. But those things aren't happening.
And a bit of a history lesson on the matter of labyrinth streaming and hype tendencies :
Spoiler
I dont like PoE streaming, i find it way to boring to be honest, id rather play myself, still though from time to time i check to see something new or just to go to sleep easier. Having said that, before the ascendancy hit live if you guys remember Kripparian was given the permission to stream Ascendancy while no other streamer could. Being in alpha i already knew what the content was and since i was already bored by that time with the labyrinth (imagine not even one week playing and i disliked it), i said "what the heck, lets watch Kripperino".
He likes the game, and he was glad to be back, he did normal/cruel labs for the ascendancies and then continued to progress to maps and checking skill and stuff. When people asked him show us the lab, he was constantly answering : "i dont like it much", "meh, i'd rather level up and do maps", "lab is boring, i only did it for the ascendancies to test them".
I found his stance very honest, he was given the privilege to stream Ascendancy before anyone else but he was still bashing the labyrinth part. Since i was already trying to pass the idea in the alpha forums that the labyrinth is not that great of an addition, i was really glad someone else was having the same opinion, and that someone happened to be the most succesfull streamer PoE ever had, a guy that helped PoE more than any other non-GGG person. But shit labyrinth was set in stone.
A few days later other streamers started showcasing Ascendancies, with hype and shit going on at the time the majority of them was playing labyrinth only to get a better grasp of it and to promote it to a wider audience. That all stoped as soon as Ascendancy hit live, almost nobody was streaming labyrinth anymore, except the very few who didnt have alpha access and wanted to stream it. Soon after not even those continued streaming labyrinth. I wont speak names but you will surely get what im saying. Some were genuinely enjoying it for as long as they were streaming it, others had that weird expression in their face "wtf am i playing?", others like the asslickers they were they were trying to promote it to no avail though. The viewers were not there, every twitch channel that had lab on had significantly less viewers that the usual numbers.
And thus streamers almost stopped alltogether streaming labyrinth after a while. And the reason is simple, people DO NOT HAVE FUN with the lamebyrinth, not when playing it, not when watching it and not even when hearing about it. FUN and ENJOYMENT is what keeps people here, and the labyrinth for various reasons does not offer those. It might be the enchant system/grind, it might be the gratuitous gating of character customization content, it might be the totally allienating arcade gameplay in a hack&slash ARPG game and those are only few of the many reasons. Even those who like it have come out and said how tedious and repetitive it is after a while. Yeah there are those who are still genuinely enjoying the playstyle and i have to say im happy for them, but please allow us to have the same fun with it or at least with the customization options it offers, cause at its current state we cant have either.
GGG surely had the best intentions and hopes for it but its just not fit for the masterpiece called PoE, it was a step in the wrong direction (the labyrinth not the ascendancy classes) for me, but i still enjoy playing my non-ascendend characters and the core game and i will continue to do so, unless GGG decides to implement more things like that or balance the game around them.
P.S. : Whenever you can, go check twitch.tv. And i challenge you to find a person streaming labyrinth runs. Hell i even challenge you to find someone who is ascending and streaming it nowadays. If you happen and find anyone please check the viewer count at that moment, as well as the comments. Come here afterwards and share your findings.
And the quote wars shall begin !
Just because these guys are louder doesn't mean their opinions are the tendency of the majority ... Making 5 post a day doesn't change anything, except making more place for trolling, quote wars etc ...
About streamers, the popular ones are all about competition (ranking) and Lab doesn't count. And when they do lab it's usually a fast run, can't see why watchers would leave. Unless the guy kills every monster, fails at traps (could be fun tho) etc ...
Lab is to be done 3 times if your build doesn't require a specific enchant ... So no there isn't any downside about doing lab on stream for the popular streamers (Watched Etup and Darkee during PHC FB)
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miljan wrote:
Its not normal that community has problems about the things you posted, because all of those thing are the ones that game has problems with, and that need to be adresed. Lab is one additional problem, a new problem with the game, that was implemented, that also needs to be fixed now. You should implement more solutions and less new problems
I dont know the names of streamers that I watched.
Ok so we all have to have the same opinion about every aspect of the game then ... Are you aware of what you're saying here ?
And ... hahahaha
"Gkek#1581":
*People with any semblance of intelligence don't watch an entire season of a TV show just to see if it's any good lol*
Last edited by Jayserix#4932 on May 29, 2016, 6:55:26 PM
Ok so we all have to have the same opinion about every aspect of the game then ... Are you aware of what you're saying here ?
And ... hahahaha
This are not opinions I am talking about. This are problems that the game has, and that needs to be fixed in one way or another. Lab is a new problem that needs fixing.
This are not opinions I am talking about. This are problems that the game has, and that needs to be fixed in one way or another. Lab is a new problem that needs fixing.
That's all well and good, the game indeed has problems. Fortunately, GGG has a well established system for dealing with problems:
1. 100% of the forum/reddit population howls about some sort of a big screwup.
2. Fix at some time during the next month if it's high profile content and they agree it is indeed a problem, good example - Beyond.
1. 75% of the community is seriously pissed about some obvious exploit.
2. Fix it over the next 12 months if it persists, otherwise try to pass it off as a feature, an example - minion snapshotting.
1. Community is divided in half about some sort of serious issue.
2. Wait until everyone forgets about it and if they don't apply some sort of bandaid at an undetermined point in time, example - trading, labyrinth, melee.
1. 25% of the community complains about a balance oversight.
2. Pretend it isn't even an issue, example - Controlled Destruction, self-found.
Now, I'm not saying it could be done much better, maybe it would if Bastilla lent them her powers of Battle Meditation, but this is probably the best they can currently do with their schedule.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
Ok so we all have to have the same opinion about every aspect of the game then ... Are you aware of what you're saying here ?
And ... hahahaha
This are not opinions I am talking about. This are problems that the game has, and that needs to be fixed in one way or another. Lab is a new problem that needs fixing.
Hmmm
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miljan wrote:
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Jayserix wrote:
The player base is divided about trading / cruel / no self found leagues / etc ... It's normal, that doesn't mean it should receive special treatment because reddit it angry about it ...
Who besides ProjectPT said he dislike the lab ?
No, its not normal. This are all the problems that the game has and need to be improved and fixed. Some are coming like better trading. Cruel changes maybe, chris changed his mind lately, we will see. Leagues or better said custom paid leagues that community wants. All this things show there are problems with different parts of poe and that they actually need to be addressed at some point.
So wtf are you saying ? Players have different opinions about everything, right ? These are problems, right ? And now they aren't opinions ?
Dude really ?
"Gkek#1581":
*People with any semblance of intelligence don't watch an entire season of a TV show just to see if it's any good lol*
This are not opinions I am talking about. This are problems that the game has, and that needs to be fixed in one way or another. Lab is a new problem that needs fixing.
That's all well and good, the game indeed has problems. Fortunately, GGG has a well established system for dealing with problems:
1. 100% of the forum/reddit population howls about some sort of a big screwup.
2. Fix at some time during the next month if it's high profile content and they agree it is indeed a problem, good example - Beyond.
1. 75% of the community is seriously pissed about some obvious exploit.
2. Fix it over the next 12 months if it persists, otherwise try to pass it off as a feature, an example - minion snapshotting.
1. Community is divided in half about some sort of serious issue.
2. Wait until everyone forgets about it and if they don't apply some sort of bandaid at an undetermined point in time, example - trading, labyrinth, melee.
1. 25% of the community complains about a balance oversight.
2. Pretend it isn't even an issue, example - Controlled Destruction, self-found.
Now, I'm not saying it could be done much better, maybe it would if Bastilla lent them her powers of Battle Meditation, but this is probably the best they can currently do with their schedule.
Not sure about the %. But there are problems with your post. A lot of exploits and limitation are not fixed because they are hard to fix from programing point of view.
You talk about trade fixing. A thing that is one of the more complex things to fix, and very time consuming. They actually said they had time to chose, trade improvements or desync fix, they chose desync . Now they are slowly making trading better, and as said will continue to do it over time.
I actually expect that for the next real expansion we got some very big changes to trade.
Ok so we all have to have the same opinion about every aspect of the game then ... Are you aware of what you're saying here ?
And ... hahahaha
This are not opinions I am talking about. This are problems that the game has, and that needs to be fixed in one way or another. Lab is a new problem that needs fixing.
Hmmm
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miljan wrote:
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Jayserix wrote:
The player base is divided about trading / cruel / no self found leagues / etc ... It's normal, that doesn't mean it should receive special treatment because reddit it angry about it ...
Who besides ProjectPT said he dislike the lab ?
No, its not normal. This are all the problems that the game has and need to be improved and fixed. Some are coming like better trading. Cruel changes maybe, chris changed his mind lately, we will see. Leagues or better said custom paid leagues that community wants. All this things show there are problems with different parts of poe and that they actually need to be addressed at some point.
So wtf are you saying ? Players have different opinions about everything, right ? These are problems, right ? And now they aren't opinions ?
Dude really ?
As I said this are problems with the game. This is not something do I like that POE is dark and gory or I want it to be more cartony. This things that you posted in your post are problems with the game that need fixing. And lab is just one new problem.
A lot of exploits and limitation are not fixed because they are hard to fix from programing point of view.
Exactly, they aren't a big company and the engine they use is problematic, they have a lot of work on their hands and it's taking them probably half again as long as it would ideally take.
So, to act on something they need three conditions:
1. The community has to almost uniformly agree it's a problem.
2. They must also agree it's a problem.
3. It has to be serious enough or the solution has to be simple enough to rate high on the priority list.
Currently, Labyrinth has none of those, we'll see about the future but currently it doesn't.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
As I said this are problems with the game. This is not something do I like that POE is dark and gory or I want it to be more cartony. This things that you posted in your post are problems with the game that need fixing. And lab is just one new problem.
I wish you could understand english ... Players have different opinions about some aspects of the game, the fact that you consider it a problem is YOUR opinion.
If GGG decides to adress it, cool ! That will be an improvement for some, a failure for others, a non factor for others. Everything is a matter of point of view.
At the end of the day, you'll be playing PoE, or will switch to another game.
PS : Raics said in a more diplomatic way, excellent.
"Gkek#1581":
*People with any semblance of intelligence don't watch an entire season of a TV show just to see if it's any good lol*
Last edited by Jayserix#4932 on May 29, 2016, 7:47:22 PM
