Thoughts from a game dev in the industry ...

"

NeroNoah wrote:

Mixed feelings about this. While I do agree about that for, let's say, Dominus, the whole Act IV was hinted in a lot of places (uniques, masters, inscriptions everywhere, NPCs, the comic, etc.). A lot of things were being expected.

I think GGG has improved over this, though. The labyrinth lore is probably the most amazing yet (although the labyrinth introduction itself could be polished).

The characters were hinted in a lot of places for a long time but... that's it.
Suddenly we're in Act 4. We need an eyeball to power this laser. Better go kill Kaom.
Wait, he's alive? What has he been doing? Why is he stuck in some seemingly disconnected dimension?

Even the lesser bosses made more sense:
Merveil - She's eating people(So kinky).
Brutus - He's the warden. He's in a prison. This makes sense.
The Bandits - They each rule their own territory.
Vaal Oversoul - You released him when you broke the seal. He resides atop the Vaal Pyramid.

I left out some others because I'm no pro on the lore and honestly can't remember dick about them. However, at least getting to the ones named above, you know why they're there and what they've been up to. Kaom is just a guy at the end of an area named after him. Where'd this place come from? Is he doing anything? Any ulterior motive?

Like I said, I'm no pro on lore so please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't read the lore on the labyrinth yet but the entirety of Act 4 just seems so tacked on. The Daresso bit sort of makes sense. Then you get to Piety who's still alive with no explanation and 3 mini-bosses who just happen to live inside The Beast and have that old guy's organs (Even more kinky).

"

mezmery wrote:

pls
some analysis of dark souls series lore
and silent hill too pls
i want to laugh once more THAT hard.

Dragons. First flame. Dragons dead! Woodstock. Chaos Demons. Burnt old guy. Asylum. Etc.

I quite enjoy the story. I wouldn't say that the "out of nowhere boss" is bad story telling. Sometimes it can twist the story in a way that makes you question the logic you've been following. Gurran Lagann does it quite well, you think the spiral king is the big bad for ages then bam! Turns out the spiral king, while still a massive d-bag, was actually protecting everyone by oppressing them from the anti-spirals. Then you find yourself questioning whether fighting for that freedom was really worth losing that security. Very good story telling. Terrible soundtrack, sure, great storytelling.

Furthermore, a lot of the story has to be pieced together outside the game. There is a really good synopsis on the wiki you should check out. It just sounds like that kind of story telling isn't your cup of tea. And that's ok. But for a world as engrossing as Wraeclast, I think it's fine.

"

casval776 wrote:

The characters were hinted in a lot of places for a long time but... that's it.
Suddenly we're in Act 4. We need an eyeball to power this laser. Better go kill Kaom.
Wait, he's alive? What has he been doing? Why is he stuck in some seemingly disconnected dimension?

Even the lesser bosses made more sense:
Merveil - She's eating people(So kinky).
Brutus - He's the warden. He's in a prison. This makes sense.
The Bandits - They each rule their own territory.
Vaal Oversoul - You released him when you broke the seal. He resides atop the Vaal Pyramid.

I left out some others because I'm no pro on the lore and honestly can't remember dick about them. However, at least getting to the ones named above, you know why they're there and what they've been up to. Kaom is just a guy at the end of an area named after him. Where'd this place come from? Is he doing anything? Any ulterior motive?

The black spirit, Kitava, the Nightmare, the Beast is a creature that can twist reality via the power of dreams. Maps are dreams accessed via a magical device. Act IV is what happens when the Beast uses its powers controlled by a thaumaturge (Malachai). Kaom and Daresso's areas are dreams. The beast can keep alive stuff, albeit in a sickening state (like Piety). That's the reason there is so much undead in Wraeclast.

You can know more about Malachai reading things in the game (his reseach about dreams is fairly relevant), Dialla can give you an unreliable account of what happened too. He convinced Voll to let him live and research a way to destroy thaumaturgy, but he eventually killed the Eternal Empire and went to the innards of the beast to adquire its power.

The laser beam was willed into reality thanks to a map device (transmutia/reverie device), so it's natural that the batteries for it to work are in dreams too.

"

Tear down the walls that imprison the mind... that is what the gems do. That is their true 'virtue'.

The moment my fingertips brushed the cool, silken planes of that first gem, I felt it. My skull ached, as if its contents were growing, pressing against the bone, searching for a way to break free.

That night, once the wine had dulled the pain enough to allow the onset of sleep, the dreams began. I have not been without them since. Nor would I be. Every spark of thaumaturgy that I wield, every device that I forge, every creature that I transfigure, I owe to these lessons cloaked in Nightmare.

From whence do these precepts hail? Certainly not the mundane grey between my ears. I possess only one reference that bears faith. Translated with unquestionable clarity by that idiot savant, Icius Perandus. "The Beast". Doryani of the Vaal knew the truth. Soon now, so shall I.

Malachai

Prediction: Doryani will be an important enemy in the future.

"

scale_e wrote:

Terrible soundtrack, sure, great storytelling.

Get the hell out.
Now.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

The black spirit, Kitava, the Nightmare, the Beast is a creature that can twist reality via the power of dreams. Maps are dreams accessed via a magical device. Act IV is what happens when the Beast uses its powers controlled by a thaumaturge (Malachai). Kaom and Daresso's areas are dreams. The beast can keep alive stuff, albeit in a sickening state (like Piety). That's the reason there is so much undead in Wraeclast.

You can know more about Malachai reading things in the game (his reseach about dreams is fairly relevant), Dialla can give you an unreliable account of what happened too. He convinced Voll to let him live and research a way to destroy thaumaturgy, but he eventually killed the Eternal Empire and went to the innards of the beast to adquire its power.

The laser beam was willed into reality thanks to a map device (transmutia/reverie device), so it's natural that the batteries for it to work are in dreams too.

Welp. There we have it.
I stand corrected.

Someone better screenshot this because I don't admit defeat often.

"

casval776 wrote:

The perfect analogy really is Dragonball Z up until Frieza. Raditz came to Earth. Vegeta and Nappa came to Earth. We go to Namek to find more dragon balls. Turns out the guy who exterminated the main character's race is there too. He's a super high level bad guy and even all of the good guys combined can't break his tank. It takes the main character, Goku, to lose his best friend to finally achieve the power to beat Frieza. In doing so, he avenged his race, avenged his nemesis, fulfilled the prophecy of his people, defeated a tyrant, and (presumably) disappeared/died while doing so. It's a perfect conclusion.

Can I just point out how hilariously accurate an analogy this is?

I can kind of forgive Dominus because I assumed he was Piety's boss. And it kinda makes sense that there would be someone behind her. The problem is that this is never built up, but at least it can be justified in that he is Piety's boss. To use your analogy, Piety is more the Vegeta while Dominus is the Frieza, in that she is the ever-present rival getting in your way and sort of lacks the grandeur of a Final Boss. She's a high-ranking lackey, and I can deal with that.

But Malachi? Who the fuck is Malachi? I honestly don't know anything about him beyond, I think, he was Dialla's husband? So my first reaction was "Wait, this guy is alive? Well what the fuck has he been doing all this time? I thought Dialla was centuries old, has he just been putzing about for centuries?" Much like Dominus, there's so little build up to him. You jump into act 4 and the game treats you like this has been your goal all along. Well, no...My goal was curb-stomping Piety in her smug bitch teeth, and then as an afterthought her boss too.

"

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

But Malachi? Who the fuck is Malachi? I honestly don't know anything about him beyond, I think, he was Dialla's husband? So my first reaction was "Wait, this guy is alive? Well what the fuck has he been doing all this time? I thought Dialla was centuries old, has he just been putzing about for centuries?" Much like Dominus, there's so little build up to him. You jump into act 4 and the game treats you like this has been your goal all along. Well, no...My goal was curb-stomping Piety in her smug bitch teeth, and then as an afterthought her boss too.

I brutally disagree. See above.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

"

AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

But Malachi? Who the fuck is Malachi? I honestly don't know anything about him beyond, I think, he was Dialla's husband? So my first reaction was "Wait, this guy is alive? Well what the fuck has he been doing all this time? I thought Dialla was centuries old, has he just been putzing about for centuries?" Much like Dominus, there's so little build up to him. You jump into act 4 and the game treats you like this has been your goal all along. Well, no...My goal was curb-stomping Piety in her smug bitch teeth, and then as an afterthought her boss too.

I brutally disagree. See above.

While Malachai is explained in lore, there's no build up to meeting him.
There's a build up to the final showdown with Piety. Then Malachai pops up out of nowhere.

I think that's what he's getting at.
While you may have a point in regards to the lore, the build up with Piety is felt through gameplay.

"

casval776 wrote:

While Malachai is explained in lore, there's no build up to meeting him.
There's a build up to the final showdown with Piety. Then Malachai pops up out of nowhere.

I think that's what he's getting at.
While you may have a point in regards to the lore, the build up with Piety is felt through gameplay.

Oh, sure. But it wouldn't make sense otherwise. If you were paying attention, he has a fairly long build up anyway. The thing is that he was in near the Heart of Corruption all this time. He was isolated to avoid any risks of dying.

And right at the end Piety helps you. It's a final attempt at redemption, despite her maintaining that she gave into that corruption willingly. Very majin Vegeta. Powerful stuff. The contrast between her and Malachi is what makes the final battle so engaging. Piety was greedy and prideful, but Malachi was that turned up to eleven. He was a purely evil man with aspirations of God-hood.

The build up to piety is obvious.
The build up to Malachi is hidden in lore.

Act 4 has some issues, it does feel a little rushed with regards to Kaom and Daresso, but overall I think it's great.