SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

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Anyway less than 6 hours for the announcement i believe, lets hope GGG delivers. Hmmm now i mentioned that, when will GGG deliver the stats regarding the labyrinth ? Kinda shady to keep them secret for so long.


P.S.: Pyrokar and Casual_Ascent you are killing me, i couldnt stop laughing when writing this. Leave poor goetzjam alone he doesnt know any better.

I too hope that GGG announces something in the next release. My guess is that unless they go for a quicker solution, that the announcement will indicate the change will be in the September/October release. I assume that they stagger their releases in that the upcoming release is mostly in test while the next after is mostly in development. That being the case they may not even announce anything regarding ascendancy points in the upcoming announcement. I'm convinced that GGG will do something though to make ascendancy available outside the labyrinth (or at least without trap game play). PoE has lost players and would expect to lose a similar percentage of new players. So, in order to "stop the bleeding" something will be done in this up coming release or the next one.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

He actually did speak on behalf of the majority of the players.

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I'm not saying its optional overall, only that it really is now at this stage of the game, despite Chris stating otherwise.

Umm... I think anyone (except you, of course) is going to agree with what the lead dev says over what your own personal views are.

Except he can't because neither you nor him can know what the majority of players feel about the lab.


I could say the majority of people that play this game hate you, but that doesn't have evidence to back it up so, I won't say that.


In terms of what Chris says, if I recall correctly he did say ascendancy points wouldn't be removed from the lab. So if you want to keep with what Chris is saying, then all you need to know is that.

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PoE has lost players and would expect to lose a similar percentage of new players. So, in order to "stop the bleeding" something will be done in this up coming release or the next one.

Or like all changes GGG knows that people may or may not like they accept that the amount is fine for not changing the design of the game to cater to people that just cry about something they don't really put forth any effort into trying to learn. Or they might find that its not so much different from other elements inside the game that anyone that is stupid enough to quit the game because of the traps\lab isn't worth the effort of changing the game for.

"if you had to guess"

Well good thing is it isn't up to you to make the calls Mr. I only did the fucking lab once. Understand that game design shouldn't be "compromised" on thats how the games turn from the game GGG wants and we play, into a game that has to cater to every person that thinks like you.

Keep in mind, if the devs have to change design ideas like the lab and other things going forward because people like you complain, they will be less happy with the game and might start losing the special touch that it once has, fuck it might have already done this, not sure yet.

I think its fucking hilarious people use "new players" as an excuse for anything, don't fucking use new players, its a pathetic attempt at trying to sway an audience that will be like "yeah think of the new players"

Just ignore this goetzjam troll. He doesnt even know anymore what to say in trying to defend this shit. When someone try to defend it from lore perspective, that developers can expand and change any time they fucking want, you know how low they fallen.

Labyrinth is the worst shit ever added to this game. Acsedancy classes is one of the best shit added to the game. They need to be separated. I can give over 10 examples how, that will not even change one part of fucking lore, and most of this examples are in this same thread, that is getting swallowed by fanboys not knowing anymore what to say.

If people like to play platformer crap, than they should play it. Majority of us will not touch that shit, so remove acsedancy points from the lab is the only way to fix this crap that GGG did (and as so many people said you dont even need to remove it form lab, just make a optional way to get over this crappy dungeon directly to boss or some other way like making the points currency so you can trade for it). And I am 100% sure this will happen in some form in this next league, because majority of players hate it. And GGG leaving this shit so people are forced to do it is not gonna happen as they are not dumb.

I mean, is it a surprise? No, as people dont like to have mario crap in their loot them up games. What can we expect next? A card game, as we already have div cards, where they put some other important part of the game behind it? I guarantee this same fanboys would defend any shit GGG adds to the game. But I hope GGG learned form this mistake, so they will not move PoE in some stupid direction.

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goetzjam wrote:

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You do not get to speak on behalf of the majority of people, even the shitty poll that someone wanted to use doesn't dictate that the majority of the community dislikes the lab. As far as it already being released and people seeing the content, the forcing aspect should remain unique to the lab, because its additional power in exchange for completing a challenge. Side quest for skill points an alike are "forced" if you want to benefit from those as well.
[delete irrelevant opinions]

Flat out falsehood is high lighted above. The most accurate poll we have (the only poll) says that 59% of the population dislikes labyrinth. Interesting how blatantly false statements can flow so easily. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1639251

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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You do not get to speak on behalf of the majority of people, even the shitty poll that someone wanted to use doesn't dictate that the majority of the community dislikes the lab. As far as it already being released and people seeing the content, the forcing aspect should remain unique to the lab, because its additional power in exchange for completing a challenge. Side quest for skill points an alike are "forced" if you want to benefit from those as well.
[delete irrelevant opinions]

Flat out falsehood is high lighted above. The most accurate poll we have (the only poll) says that 59% of the population dislikes labyrinth. Interesting how blatantly false statements can flow so easily. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1639251

Dude what was the fucking numbers you had on your "adjusted poll" it was sub 50% and you fucking know it.

So stop with your fucking nonsense already.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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You do not get to speak on behalf of the majority of people, even the shitty poll that someone wanted to use doesn't dictate that the majority of the community dislikes the lab. As far as it already being released and people seeing the content, the forcing aspect should remain unique to the lab, because its additional power in exchange for completing a challenge. Side quest for skill points an alike are "forced" if you want to benefit from those as well.
[delete irrelevant opinions]

Flat out falsehood is high lighted above. The most accurate poll we have (the only poll) says that 59% of the population dislikes labyrinth. Interesting how blatantly false statements can flow so easily. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1639251

Dude what was the fucking numbers you had on your "adjusted poll" it was sub 50% and you fucking know it.

So stop with your fucking nonsense already.

Please stop telling silly stories. There's only one poll. I don't have a poll. The poll says 59% dislike labyrinth. Just add up the numbers and get 59% or if you add up the numbers that like labyrinth you get 41%. BTW 41% + 59% = 100%, just another example of how mathematics works. I know you don't like the poll but sorry those are the facts. It's the only poll there is.

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goetzjam wrote:

I'm not saying its optional overall, only that it really is now at this stage of the game, despite Chris stating otherwise.

You do not get to speak on behalf of the majority of people, even the shitty poll that someone wanted to use doesn't dictate that the majority of the community dislikes the lab. As far as it already being released and people seeing the content, the forcing aspect should remain unique to the lab, because its additional power in exchange for completing a challenge. Side quest for skill points an alike are "forced" if you want to benefit from those as well.

Keys aren't rewords, they are rewards but not the kind people really go out of their way to seek out. In some cases yes you might do something slightly different, but in the end those things aren't why you or anyone does the lab, its simply a side effect.



"go through all this shit"

To gain increased power, yes, it needs to be a challenge and the best way is honest thru the lab, not only do the devs agree but many players like this aspect of the game that requires you to learn something new instead of just "killing" your way thru the challenge like literally everything else in the game.

Its different, but not that different as explained many fucking times already ground effects aren't new to poe, having to move your character out of danger isn't new. A couple of the traps in the lab are similar to ones in D3, so to say it doesn't fit this genre when the other large game in this genre does it, well that is just really an ignorant statement, considering its been mentioned here multiple times before, I know I've said it.

Again sorry you don't like the lab, but AC needs to stay in the lab, focus on making it better in someway for you to do the challenge presented, rather then just throwing it out as a concept. Expansions aren't like leagues, they aren't something people just need to experience once for a rotation and be forgotten, they are aspects of the game that are added and should remain relevant going forward, removing AC from the lab would very much make the lab irrelevant and therefore the expansion's largest piece of content irrelevant in the process as well.

With additional power in the balance, a challenge must be completed, no a supper buffed izaro that offers no chance of death on your character, that isn't going to cut it.

We are here talking about future, what needs to change and how to fix the problems with this. And chris saying its not optional means, it is core part of the game, and thats how they made it for the future, and what they have in mind.

I did not speak about majority, you did. I just used your post where you said that majority would not play the labyrinth if they removed the points. And I agree with that, as I think that majority doesn't like the labyrinth, as same as you seem to think.

Keys are directly rewords, same as enchantments. Enchantments are the main reason why people will redo the lab, but keys are part of the reword, there is no denying that.

To get increase power it needs to be a challenge, but challenge that is part of this type of games. As someone said you dont put a mini card game behind a challenge in arpg game and expect people to like it.

Its very different, and its nothing like ground effects. This is a sequence of timed puzzles that are used in platformer games as people already said. This was never a part of any arpg out there. I dont know what D3 did or how it did it, as that game is known to be a action game more than a standard arpg game, so I will not be surprised if they have it (in fact looking at d3 videos, those traps are nothing like in PoE). You repeating something that is not correct will not make it more valid. There is literally no arpg in diablo style out there that has puzzle trap sequences.

Is this a expansion or league doesnt really change anything.
If part of the game that is added, is very different from the core, and as you here say most people would not play it, than yes, it needs to be changed because the expansion actually sucks for most people.

I am not sure about izaro not offering chance of death? The boss will work same as in the maze, you cant die so you need to kill him. So it works like any part of the game.

You must understand that forcing a bad part of the game that people dont like is not good thing for GGG to do. This needs to change, because leaving it as is makes the game worse for a lot of people. And the core problem of it is because of the heavy platformer gameplay that is very different than all other arpg (including PoE) and people hate that part.

Well mr.goetjam if you can't find what's wrong with my suggestion / point then i believe you have to retract this statement as you seem unable to argue otherwise.

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goetzjam wrote:

Removing the points from the lab isn't an option, it isn't logical lore wise or design wise to do that. So we can look into the options that keep it (and the traps there) because anything else isn't worth discussing.

I also want it stated in the OP, that the appointed forum leader lost an argument on the same day his glorious career began. May he forever roam the forums in search of battles he can actually win.

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We are here talking about future, what needs to change and how to fix the problems with this. And chris saying its not optional means, it is core part of the game, and thats how they made it for the future, and what they have in mind.

The only part about me saying is its "optional" is that you don't have to ascend to play the game, currently. Because GGG didn't actually increase the difficulty of the game to correspond to this additional power, yet.

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I did not speak about majority, you did. I just used your post where you said that majority would not play the labyrinth if they removed the points. And I agree with that, as I think that majority doesn't like the labyrinth, as same as you seem to think.

First off you are twisting what I said. The majority of the people that play, (and actually get to endgame) are going to play the lab, because they want the ascendancy points, however if the ascendancy points can be done without doing the lab, then the reasons to do the lab itself goes from being a factor that all endgame characters will have want to done, to a factor much less because people can PURCHASE everything else that has to do with the lab. Its not about wanting to due it or not, time factor would dictate that if the lab is turned into an optional piece of content, less then 50% of the players would do it, which completely defeats the largest part of the expansion.

For example I like the lab, but am I going to do it multiple times, probably not I can just buy the enchantments because TBH there isn't really anything else I can spend my wealth on now that everything in the game is stupid fucking cheap.

Here is what you said about the majority:

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Yes, majority of people would not play the lab because majority dont like that type of gameplay.

Except you don't know that, and you can't. Your correlate the majority of the people that wouldnt play the lab if AC was removed with them disliking it, but I am using the rewards and you are somehow saying that the rewards don't matter, it does, if the lab is a risk and the reward isn't high enough to do it, which it won't be for many players, then obviously people won't run it.

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Keys are directly rewords, same as enchantments. Enchantments are the main reason why people will redo the lab, but keys are part of the reword, there is no denying that.

Its a side effect, its hardly worth mentioning.

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To get increase power it needs to be a challenge, but challenge that is part of this type of games. As someone said you dont put a mini card game behind a challenge in arpg game and expect people to like it.

Except it isn't a card game challenge. So your point is, well quite pointless.

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Its very different, and its nothing like ground effects. This is a sequence of timed puzzles that are used in platformer games as people already said. This was never a part of any arpg out there. I dont know what D3 did or how it did it, as that game is known to be a action game more than a standard arpg game, so I will not be surprised if they have it (in fact looking at d3 videos, those traps are nothing like in PoE). You repeating something that is not correct will not make it more valid. There is literally no arpg in diablo style out there that has puzzle trap sequences.

You should inform yourself before you say someone is incorrect. Poe has the hammer style traps that come down, JUST like D3 does. Poe has a fire pit style trap, JUST like d3 does. The whole idea that it isn't similar is just wrong. Here is a perfect case where someone that doesn't know shit about another game wants to try and pretend they do. Its clear you ARE WRONG.

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Is this a expansion or league doesnt really change anything.
If part of the game that is added, is very different from the core, and as you here say most people would not play it, than yes, it needs to be changed because the expansion actually sucks for most people.

Actually it does matter. Expansion content should remain relevant going forward, as I've said, league content can be relevant, but doesn't have to be that way.

I am not sure about izaro not offering chance of death? The boss will work same as in the maze, you cant die so you need to kill him. So it works like any part of the game. Here you again commenting on "most"\majority when you cannot know that, so you are stating it as if it were fact without any facts to prove it (dont bring a bias poll into the argument, don't stoop to that shitty of a level)

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You must understand that forcing a bad part of the game that people dont like is not good thing for GGG to do. This needs to change, because leaving it as is makes the game worse for a lot of people. And the core problem of it is because of the heavy platformer gameplay that is very different than all other arpg (including PoE) and people hate that part.

Because you can't kill the traps you don't like the lab, thats literally the only explanation that can be made, because everything else (even the traps do despite you not acknowledging it) about the lab actually fits the genre and the game as a whole.

Sad you hate it, but I would hate the devs more if they just changed the design of the game everytime a bunch of people grouped together and circle jerked themself about how they dont think something fits.


I mean lets be honest here and consider a player like yourself, you BARELY fucking play this game and you want it to be changed to fit what you think the game should be. How is that fair for long term supporters likely myself or people that play this game significantly more then you? It isn't.

Holy crap, I just read the update OP thread. Really great suggestion and overall great post. Really great job on collecting all the info OP. Didnt even know that GGG posted their stats on how little people play in lab.