Feedback and Suggestions - SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas] - Forum

" ScrotieMcB wrote: I'm a Lab fan and totally behind keeping it mandatory, but I do see a point here for you guys. I can certainly understand why some traps would do level-independent damage (or even some monsters), but I really can't fathom why ALL traps do level-independent damage. If you just pump max HP then that provides zero benefit against traps, while I think the best design would be "benefit against these traps, no benefit against those traps." Note that this is an execution flaw, not a concept flaw. I have no core issue with threats which you can't kill and must avoid. But why have ALL unkillable threats deal level-independent damage, and have ALL killable threats deal level-dependent damage? Didn't you just say that Sharurly, Regulator, me and everyone else that says they dislike trap game play are all liars because since you feel the game play is the same, we must have the same feelings about it as you. Therefore we're all either despicable or clueless liars when we say that it is different? If that is the case then why even bother wasting your time trying to communicate with us? Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!	Posted by Turtledove#4014 on May 14, 2016, 11:08:57 PM Quote this Post
No. I said everybody lies. Not everybody lies all the time. To be more specific, if someone describes a hypothetical situation and says "I would like or dislike this," I generally wonder if they've actually thought out every detail - they could easily end up feeling quite differently about it. Therefore I do not respect mass opinion at all when it comes to suggestions. However, if someone has a thing right in front of them, can use it and has used it, and says "I like this" or "I hate this," I consider that to be true most of the time (with untrue, manipulative responses at most 10% of sample). Therefore, I do respect mass opinion when it comes to feedback. Feedback and suggestions are two different things. And you guys aren't quite mass opinion. It's really difficult to properly appraise how many Lab-haters there are. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that a lot of folks hate the Lab. If so, I'd agree something should be done about it, preferably something which also works for those who love the Lab. I do not, however, think disjoining Ascendancy from the Lab is the best solution to that problem, if it is a solution at all (it seems more like running from the problem to me). More likely, revamping trap design is a better place to start; as things are now, several of the traps feel very similar, which I believe could be creating very divisive responses based on whether or not one finds those traps to be fun or not. I don't understand why so many different types of traps are percentage-based physical DoT blades (one type of that would still be okay). When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on May 14, 2016, 11:39:05 PM	Posted by ScrotieMcB#2697 on May 14, 2016, 11:30:30 PM Quote this Post
I ran Cruel trials and lab this evening to get the Ascendancy passives for my Inquisitor in the two week HC Perandus event. It was the lowlight of my gaming evening, a genuine pain in the ass, just as running normal trials and Lab was for that same character. In better news, the rest of the time I got to play an actual ARPG, one that I genuinely enjoy playing, which was all the sweeter because I know that character will not be visiting Labyrinth again. Now that prestige classes will finally leave lab in 4.0, will GGG get it right this time or will they find new ways to repeat old mistakes?	Posted by EnjoyTheJourney#0109 on May 15, 2016, 12:21:41 AM Quote this Post
" ScrotieMcB wrote: I'm a Lab fan and totally behind keeping it mandatory, but I do see a point here for you guys. Just to say I appreciate you acknowledging the other side of the debate. :) Proud member of the Vocal Minority	Posted by ShaUrley#1925 on May 15, 2016, 12:22:27 AM Quote this Post
" ScrotieMcB wrote: No. I said everybody lies. Not everybody lies all the time. To be more specific, if someone describes a hypothetical situation and says "I would like or dislike this," I generally wonder if they've actually thought out every detail - they could easily end up feeling quite differently about it. Therefore I do not respect mass opinion at all when it comes to suggestions. However, if someone has a thing right in front of them, can use it and has used it, and says "I like this" or "I hate this," I consider that to be true most of the time (with untrue, manipulative responses at most 10% of sample). Therefore, I do respect mass opinion when it comes to feedback. Feedback and suggestions are two different things. And you guys aren't quite mass opinion. It's really difficult to properly appraise how many Lab-haters there are. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that a lot of folks hate the Lab. If so, I'd agree something should be done about it, preferably something which also works for those who love the Lab. I do not, however, think disjoining Ascendancy from the Lab is the best solution to that problem, if it is a solution at all (it seems more like running from the problem to me). More likely, revamping trap design is a better place to start; as things are now, several of the traps feel very similar, which I believe could be creating very divisive responses based on whether or not one finds those traps to be fun or not. I don't understand why so many different types of traps are percentage-based physical DoT blades (one type of that would still be okay). Thank you for clarifying and explaining! Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!	Posted by Turtledove#4014 on May 15, 2016, 1:22:17 PM Quote this Post
" Shovelcut wrote: If you wanna talk about terrible examples..."remove ac from laby because I find it boring". That is basically what this thread boils down to. Your response to that is, "i like the lab, its fine". Its not like you brought up any positive points about the lab, just an equal opinion. Poe has sloppy controls and no brightness option. Was the lab specifically made to show off the games flaws?	Posted by Chadwixx#5277 on May 15, 2016, 3:59:49 PM Quote this Post
" Chadwixx wrote: " Shovelcut wrote: If you wanna talk about terrible examples..."remove ac from laby because I find it boring". That is basically what this thread boils down to. Your response to that is, "i like the lab, its fine". Its not like you brought up any positive points about the lab, just an equal opinion. Poe has sloppy controls and no brightness option. Was the lab specifically made to show off the games flaws? Shovelcut makes a reasonable summary of the thread but, apparently doesn't understand that games should be fun. If they aren't fun then people won't play them or not play them as much. He doesn't have to care about a good player base and an income for GGG. However, GGG cares about those things and wants PoE to be successful from a game play and a financial perspective. Hopefully GGG can do something that keeps people who like the labyrinth and the significant number of people that dislike the labyrinth both happy. That is what this thread really boils down to. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!	Posted by Turtledove#4014 on May 15, 2016, 4:30:52 PM Quote this Post
" Chadwixx wrote: " Shovelcut wrote: If you wanna talk about terrible examples..."remove ac from laby because I find it boring". That is basically what this thread boils down to. Your response to that is, "i like the lab, its fine". Its not like you brought up any positive points about the lab, just an equal opinion. Poe has sloppy controls and no brightness option. Was the lab specifically made to show off the games flaws? Right, but he's not making threads demanding drastic changes and things getting freed from the tyranny of other things. Clearly you see the difference, right? "Dude he fucking said hotdog racist. Like I can't even make this shit up." - gj 1.0.0 Forum Posters now have 50% less Critical Thinking skill per Patch Last edited by dickhole_mcghee#3909 on May 16, 2016, 1:32:50 AM	Posted by dickhole_mcghee#3909 on May 15, 2016, 10:15:03 PM Quote this Post
" SaiyanZ wrote: I quit the game immediately in disgust after dying to desynced traps in the lab. That too after jumping through hoops and gimping my ES build whilst playing very carefully dodging traps for hours. Don't know if GGG has stats on when people quit the game. If they do I think the "quitting to desktop" ratio after deaths in the lab would rank very high. I'm a long time player with around 3000 hours of playtime. I came back to the game last week after a couple months break. Just 10 hours or so running the trials and lab for Ascendancy points is enough to make me quit the game forever. Like some others have said, dodging traps that ignore your equipment is not an ARPG. If that wasn't bad, it's even worse for ES builds and people with high ping. I play the game to make builds and have fun killing things in different ways. Traps add nothing to the game for me and having to go through the chore with every build is something that I will not do. There's other enjoyable games out there. Everything you say is true. Also be aware that GGG has stated that they are working on and "fix" the ES issue in labyrinth. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!	Posted by Turtledove#4014 on May 15, 2016, 11:06:38 PM Quote this Post
The traps could be destructible. The 'penalty' for playing through the lab that way would be a slower time, less treasure keys at the end and an INFINITELY smaller e-peen. That would make two ways of doing it and still allow the elitists to separate themselves from the rest of us pitiful nubs.	Posted by Deleted on May 15, 2016, 11:34:36 PM