SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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boyandroid wrote:

My issue with Ascendancy right now were the duplication of Eternal trials. It's ok to put RNG on the spawn of eternal trials on the Maps, but at least, there is no duplicates on the first 6 trials you will discovered. Duplication of trials should only happen after you discovered all the trials. Currently, I'm at lvl 87 & I already found 10 eternal trials (4 NEW, 6 DUPLICATES). I know there's a chat party for these trials, but is that the only way to complete these trials? What if I want to discover & complete it by myself? It's so frustrating that the progress of your character was blocked by RNG behind another RNG.

Thank you for sharing your opinion that /820 chat is not a good solution to the endgame trails. I agree with your opinion. I've been a bit luckier so far, 9 trials 5 being unique, but the last one is the hardest from an RNG perspective. I've added your name to the list of people that have voiced a similar opinion, now at 924 names. Over 340 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 920 posters in support

Global 820 isn't a good solution for trials, because you're supposed to find them yourself. All these complaints boil down to the same thing, you're all lazy and don't want to do the work that is required of you to gain this massive power increase. Instant gratification at its finest right here.

Like I said earlier, the fact that you're complaining about all the work you need to do, only proves Lab is doing what it was intended to do, be a hurdle between you and a massive power increase. Be glad you don't have to farm rep to exalted with a faction, doing only dailies for it and it taking at least 2 months to get there if you do them every single day. Some quite popular games do that too, you know.

Just to elaborate on my earlier post to be clear, I have no issue with the whole Ascendancy trials or the "mini-game" or the puzzle/maze or whatever it is. My only issue was the duplication of the spawn of Eternal trials. I get the intention of GGG for putting all those work (trials) for the Ascendancy reward points. If they want to "test" some of our skill/abilities as a player like reflex, spacial awareness & focus, it's fine by me. I'll jump the hoop, atleast in the process I'm the one in control of my progress. If I die in the trials, it's my fault, I'm the one controlling the character. (but except for those cause by technical issues - dc, lag, bugs, that should be fix). I'm also fine with the RNG of spawn of the Eternal trials on Maps. It's ok, if it's behind 1 layer of RNG. but DON'T hide it behind 2 layers of RNG. I already found a trial on the random Map, why give me a random trial? Why give me the same trials over & over when I'm still missing more other trials. It's like a lottery where you raffle the winner & also raffle what is the price. You got pick to be the lucky winner (found the spawn trial on random Map), but got screwed by winning only $1 instead of the $1M (random trial/duplicate), it's discouraging.

I don't mind doing the trials, atleast inside the trials I can do something that I can control. But I cannot do something about the RNG. If the RNG decided to screw me over, I might finish the game without completing the Ascendancy. Maybe that's the reason why it's called ETERNAL trials, because you may search it for eternity.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

Global 820 isn't a good solution for trials, because you're supposed to find them yourself. All these complaints boil down to the same thing, you're all lazy and don't want to do the work that is required of you to gain this massive power increase. Instant gratification at its finest right here.

Like I said earlier, the fact that you're complaining about all the work you need to do, only proves Lab is doing what it was intended to do, be a hurdle between you and a massive power increase. Be glad you don't have to farm rep to exalted with a faction, doing only dailies for it and it taking at least 2 months to get there if you do them every single day. Some quite popular games do that too, you know.

Playing video games is in and of itself a lazy activity.

Playing video games = lazy.

Searching for trials = lazy.

The more time a person spends 'working' at a video game, the lazier that particular person is.

People play/work video games because they're too lazy to do anything else. :)

Interesting theory. I don't see the similarities between gaming as a hobby and trials PoE maps, but interesting nonetheless. 7/10 troll post.

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Zaludoz wrote:

So, yeah, the Labyrinth is a challenge... but not a good one, and not testing what it should be testing.

So what should it be testing and why are you qualified to decide?

It is mostly a challenge you don't like. That's fine, though personally, I do like it.


Apart from that, the RNG on the trials is a bit annoying indeed. Cannot seem to find the last trial, after leveling two characters beyond 80. I know they spawn more often in white maps, but white maps are giving me less and less XP now...

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Char1983 wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

So, yeah, the Labyrinth is a challenge... but not a good one, and not testing what it should be testing.

So what should it be testing and why are you qualified to decide?

It is mostly a challenge you don't like. That's fine, though personally, I do like it.


Apart from that, the RNG on the trials is a bit annoying indeed. Cannot seem to find the last trial, after leveling two characters beyond 80. I know they spawn more often in white maps, but white maps are giving me less and less XP now...

POE is promoted to players as an ARPG, so the process for acquiring prestige class skills could focus on testing skills that get you through the rest of an ARPG, and not your platform twitch skills for navigating trap gauntlets. The way you earn prestige class skills could also involve something other than a long maze that tests many players' patience.

I agree that two layers of RNG for getting uber lab trials is unnecessary and potentially pretty annoying / disappointing. Trials as a whole are too numerous and they end up underscoring just how much lab is unlike the rest of the game.

My guess is that if you didn't enjoy what was being tested outside the usual realm of gameplay for an ARPG, then you'd also be vocal about it.

I hate the darn lab

nearly made me quit the game at one point

ive learned to live with it

I do it because you have to

but it still feels like wading through chest deep poop

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

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Char1983 wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

So, yeah, the Labyrinth is a challenge... but not a good one, and not testing what it should be testing.

So what should it be testing and why are you qualified to decide?

It is mostly a challenge you don't like. That's fine, though personally, I do like it.


Apart from that, the RNG on the trials is a bit annoying indeed. Cannot seem to find the last trial, after leveling two characters beyond 80. I know they spawn more often in white maps, but white maps are giving me less and less XP now...

POE is promoted to players as an ARPG, so the process for acquiring prestige class skills could focus on testing skills that get you through the rest of an ARPG, and not your platform twitch skills for navigating trap gauntlets. The way you earn prestige class skills could also involve something other than a long maze that tests many players' patience.

I agree that two layers of RNG for getting uber lab trials is unnecessary and potentially pretty annoying / disappointing. Trials as a whole are too numerous and they end up underscoring just how much lab is unlike the rest of the game.

My guess is that if you didn't enjoy what was being tested outside the usual realm of gameplay for an ARPG, then you'd also be vocal about it.

Yes, but we've done this little dance a hundred times now. What you perceive as not being a part of an ARPG, does not align with the ideas of many others, including the developers of this ARPG you are playing. Many titles in the past had traps in them, including those that PoE was based on. D2 and Torchlight. Very very much ARPGs those games, have traps in the core game, everywhere.

You can voice your opinion of course, but just stop spreading this misinformation like this. We will just keep debunking every word you say until you do. Try me. I've got the time in between Lab runs. :)

I've posted in the past about how traps themselves as a concept have been part of several arpgs, but the implementation seen in PoE is anti-thetical to the core aspects of the PoE in particular (build and gear), making them bad in this game, without comparison to other arpgs. However, I'll note that in other arpgs, traps are an environmental hazard, and are not the focus. Additionally, they're usually far less dangerous, more for flavor.

PoE's traps ignore most character build options, be it passive tree or gear. This was done to make it more "fair" to all builds, but turns out to function in an opposite way, in practice.

So, with traps functioning as the main focus of the labyrinth, and operating under a different rule-set than the main game (your build and gear doesn't always matter), this mini-game changes the nature of PoE's gameplay away from killing monsters for loot and into avoiding traps (and killing monsters to refill flasks), which presents a "challenge" not in accord with what makes the the rest of the game challenging.

If they read this, and take it to mean that they should add more traps to the rest of the game, to make the Labyrinth into a challenge that fits the game, I'll just hate the entire game more and more. The avoid-trap gameplay that spits on my build and gear choices, is not what I enjoy here. (the more they add "traps" to the rest of the game, the less and less I like it. So far, it's been fairly tame with a few poison arrow traps (more annoyance than worrisome - which is in line with what I'd expect in PoE) and a couple boss chambers on a couple maps. (I don't consider those escort blocks in the Beacon to be traps. They're more like moving Elreon missions)

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Xavathos wrote:

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Yes, but we've done this little dance a hundred times now. What you perceive as not being a part of an ARPG, does not align with the ideas of many others, including the developers of this ARPG you are playing. Many titles in the past had traps in them, including those that PoE was based on. D2 and Torchlight. Very very much ARPGs those games, have traps in the core game, everywhere.

You can voice your opinion of course, but just stop spreading this misinformation like this. We will just keep debunking every word you say until you do. Try me. I've got the time in between Lab runs. :)

This very long thread has gone through different phases. At first there was a "It's just five people who dislike lab" phase. That was a topic of conversation once upon a time, and that conversation has disappeared into the oblivion in which it belongs. Then for a long time it was "I'm going to tell you what you people who dislike lab are really thinking and feeling, regardless of what your opinion happens to be." You'd think that arguing "I know better than you what you think and feel and why" would be so obviously wrong that it wouldn't have persisted for long. But, it did.

Arguing the equivalence between lab and other ARPG gameplay is no less silly than the other, now-finished conversations. Trap gauntlets that extend beyond the visible eye, that are designed to be lethal on their own, and that ignore most of your usual defenses are unique to POE. Lab was created to provide a different gameplay experience by those who designed it. The devs were very clear about that. The trials are basically tutorials and their primary reason to exist is because lab gameplay is different from usual ARPG gameplay.

Rather than have this conversation which you seem so eager to have, I'd like to suggest other conversations with similar logical bases. I'll argue that Mercury is a lot hotter than Earth and you can argue that the temperatures on both planets are functionally the same, even if they may differ to a minor extent. I'll argue that Republicans and Democrats have different policy proposals about a lot of issues and you can argue that they're really proposing the same things, with miniscule differences between them.