SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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raics wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Are you suggesting that lab, as designed and implemented, is an example of good cross-genre gameplay?

If we're talking about just traps then no, not really. It's the same reason why PvP was a flop in PoE, it has too many variables so they had to work with the lowest denominator which made the content fairly toothless if you know what you're doing.

So, traps don't work well if you're expecting a piece of content from another genre that should give you similar playing experience as the original. The whole package is pretty good, though, traps do give you a flavor that's different enough to be interesting (assuming you don't find it outright repulsive because your favorite puppy stepped into a boar trap and died when you were a kid), the multistage boss fight is unique and really well done, the whole thing is accessible regardless of buildtype/playstyle and it has a petty nice learning curve, first you suck and then get better once you've done it enough.

I agree that the Izaro fight is interesting and fun; it's a creative design for a multi-stage boss fight.

If the Izaro fight took place in a setting that was more enjoyable to navigate then I would be likely to look forward to taking him on with each new character.

So, I just finished Merciless Labyrinth (Chieftain) in (edit:SSF) SC Harbinger, level 75 at the time, first try, about 8.5k tooltip damage, over 3.2khp (using the best gear I've found). Such a sour taste in my mouth after all that. No surge of happy success, and no happy relief of "never have to go back again", because I know my other characters will eventually have to go through it to be finished characters, and I'll hate every minute of it just as much, as well as the negative-anticipation of having to do it again and again...

Happily, I doubt I'll ever step foot in Uberlab due to league-length, and being SSF, finding trials.

It's not fun, and it's not hard. It's frustrating gameplay. It's more a struggle against the User Interface and control scheme than a challenge pitting my build against foes, because most traps don't care about most of my build choices. I don't feel any enjoyment from overcoming this obstacle course. It feels totally disconnected from the rest of the game, except the rewards for completion.

No argument is going to make me feel any different.

that one day the Ascendancy Point will be free from the tyranny of the lab

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Shovelcut wrote:

Then by removing the points they would no longer be "ascendancy points" since you're not proving your worthiness to Izaro and The Goddess. You're basically undoing an entire expansion. There is a theme to the labyrinth and ascendancy points whether you've noticed it or not though. :)

I think what you're missing is that someone can ascend a lot of things and "prove their worthiness," but ascendancy is not tied/married to the lab, or any other place/fights someone can ascend. So, it's options are quite open ended thematically.

The lore behind this has always seemed sketchy at best.

You've got mister undead emperor who created a labyrinth to choose a new successor because he couldn't/didn't have kids. We complete the labyrinth, but we're not made emperor because there is no empire left to rule. Instead, this goddess thing strapped to undead emperor gives us power. Supposedly, the power granted is a portion of the lingering power possessed by each of these failed labyrinth runners who possessed all of that power when they first attempted to become emperors.

Where did these failed labyrinth runners get this power? It wasn't granted by the goddess; they already had it when they entered and failed. Clearly there is another way to attain ascendancy power, without navigating a labyrinth.

The monopoly on ascending linked to the labyrinth just doesn't hold up except in the broader "the game works this way" way.

I'm not sure if the Ascendancy power is given to "failed" labyrinth runners at all.

They definately got the ending they deserved, which is being ded impaled by traps and sawed to bits.

The power probably comes from the Goddess of Justice herself, to aid the next Emperor who proved worthy.

It wouldn't be strange that Emperor Chitus Perandus didn't receive a measure of power on "beating" the labyrinth, but remember this is the Goddess of Justice, and Chitus definately cheated.

Also remember, Ascending to godhood was a thing back in the very ancient past as we look at PoE's lore.

That sort of Ascension and the sort of Ascendency which the Goddess offers may be very different things, and people might not have been "ascended" to the throne in this case because the Ascension here is obviously to the throne to be next emperor.

And there should not be any god-men walking around during Izaro's time considering gods stopped popping up ages ago when Sin first created the Beast to surpress the gods.

That bit of lore comes from the release notes that some people hate when I quote:

"Nineteen souls survived the Trials of Ascendancy. Nineteen men and women stood at the gates of the Lord's Labyrinth. Nineteen challengers whose exceptional martial and mystical talents still linger long after their death."

They survived the trials. They stood at the gates of the Lord's Labyrinth. They're long dead, and their talents linger on here at the Labyrinth... they died in the Labyrinth. They didn't ascend, and they already had that power when they arrived.

That's what I take away from that bit of lore.
The only other bits come from dialogue inside the Labyrinth itself.

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Zaludoz wrote:

That bit of lore comes from the release notes that some people hate when I quote:

"Nineteen souls survived the Trials of Ascendancy. Nineteen men and women stood at the gates of the Lord's Labyrinth. Nineteen challengers whose exceptional martial and mystical talents still linger long after their death."

They survived the trials. They stood at the gates of the Lord's Labyrinth. They're long dead, and their talents linger on here at the Labyrinth... they died in the Labyrinth. They didn't ascend, and they already had that power when they arrived.

That's what I take away from that bit of lore.
The only other bits come from dialogue inside the Labyrinth itself.

It could just mean something very different either.

It doesn't have to mean that their dead power is tied to the labyrinth, nor does it imply that they have "ascended" before they even tackled the labyrinth.

Maybe these 19 people were just classes, which our exiles in their current form without much training or experience having being exiled at their stage of the game, have no clue on how to achieve.

Going through the lab, reading the notes of fallen challengers, facing Izaro as a whole could be an experience all on its own to "reclass"

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Myonaise wrote:

Going through the lab, reading the notes of fallen challengers, facing Izaro as a whole could be an experience all on its own to "reclass"

Or the goddess simply remodels us based on those specialist templates. I wonder if the ranger starts liking men in one of her ascendancies.

Speaking of which, it would be cool if our animations and kill quotes changed with ascendancy, you know, the normally playful shadow would become a bit more sinister as an assassin. Meh, probably too much buck for the bang.

People are raging about Labyrinth but it's taboo to request skill gem autoleveling? What the bloody hell? "there not going to change the game for u so stop being lazy noob"

Christ... kids in this game lol

Basic quality of life improvements before reworking expansion mechanics IMHO.