SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Shovelcut wrote:

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Professor_Robot wrote:

Compare how many players have quit due to Ascendancy points being gated behind lab to how many players will quit if the points are no longer gated behind lab. A rough ratio of 9999:0. We see what's actually vital and what can be changed, based on a purely economical standpoint. That is why I scoff at all the people here saying this falls on deaf ears. Maybe it does, and if so, what a shame for GGG's profits.

Nobody knows how many quit due to the laby so your speculated ratio is nothing more than a wild uneducated guess. Lots of things have forced masses to quit over the course of the years and the game is still doing just fine. Changes to crit, item nerfs, skill nerfs, the list goes on and on. People act like the laby is going to kill poe yet the playerbase keeps growing and so does GGG.

Fun fact, the most vocal 'quitters' are still here and still playing.

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Shovelcut wrote:

Whether you want to admit it or not a significant portion of complainers fall into the l2p category. Simple ignorance of the laby mechanics makes for an unpleasant experience for some. A very few complainers have learned the laby mechanics and now enjoy it demonstrating that there clearly is a l2p issue for some. So it's not trolling to tell someone they need to git gud if they're bad at what they're doing. Try offering some of those people honest advice in an attempt to lessen their discomfort and you get called a white knight/shit eating beetle and various other things. It's clear by reading some of these posts that the player simply doesn't understand the mechanics or haven't put in the effort to learn how to efficiently blast through the parts of the game they don't enjoy.

Lets also face the facts, there are trolls on both sides. And it's blatantly clear which side has the more tenacious trolls. Here's a hint, they keep this thread alive with nonsense and off-topic rhetoric. If it weren't for them, this thread would have fallen waaaay beyond the first page.

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Turtledove wrote:

Your response was really doesn't make nonsense.

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Turtledove wrote:

You were the one criticizing Professor_Robot for guessing at a theoretical situation ratio. Yet here you are stating your totally unfounded assertions as if you know that "significant portion of complainers fall into the l2p category".

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

You were the one criticizing Professor_Robot for guessing at a theoretical situation ratio. Yet here you are stating your totally unfounded assertions as if you know that "significant portion of complainers fall into the l2p category".

Technically, the previous one was indeed a hypothetical assumption because we haven't been in a situation where points are no longer gated, he can't possibly know if that would cause any players to quit or not. If my memory serves right, less people complained about the idea of the lab when were were shown the video than when we actually got our hands on it, maybe more people would complain about free points than we expect, eh?

The other one was but an observation of the current state, a fair bit of lab complaints are indeed somewhat misinformed, you need a build like this, you need this level, you need this much defenses or you get oneshot no matter what, I absolutely need crazy move speed, movement skills, a ton of phys mitigation, I have to pay some basement slug to do it for me and so on. It's really nothing a bit of practice won't fix, hell, even the fairly valid complaint about trap gauntlets you can't fully see because there aren't really that many trap patterns, if you've seen it a few times you'll recognize it.
Won't say the number is 'significant' but I've seen it often enough to acknowledge it's a thing.

By the way, anyone thinking they intentionally overtuned the Kitava fight and gated maps behind it to have players complain about that for a while instead of lab? :)

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Shovelcut wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Asking for the points to be moved behind quest bosses or having them granted at level thresholds is asking for something for nothing. Sure not everyone is asking for that but I haven't seen one suggestion that doesn't (to me) feel like a handout.

Ascendancy points should not be moved. That doesn't mean they should stop improving the experience though, and all signs point to them continually improving it.

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Professor_Robot wrote:

I mean, if Lab never existed, don't you think you(and GGG) could think of a good way to gate those points? Once you start actually considering the possibilities, the prospect of Lab being the only fair way to earn those points goes out the window.

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Turtledove wrote:

edit: It's possible that something could eventually be done though, if not for us "complainers" then for the fact that labyrinth gets repeated 4 times and no other PoE content is treated like that.

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Shovelcut wrote:

IIRC it didn't exist when the ascendancy points were conceived yet they tied it to that content anyway. It fits thematically.