SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

I applaud you for getting the kaom's heart question fruz! It's obvously about the life you get from it and the pot regen, not the armor. But if you deem it insignificant or not is an opinion. The fact is that it exists. And that's one of the reasons lab is a bad design for hc.

Having less life makes lab easier. That's a fact. Because that's a fact, my opinion about the lab is that it's badly designed for hc.

Happy now fruz? You understood something i said so i threw you a bone. Don't get used to it.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I applaud you for getting the kaom's heart question fruz! It's obvously about the life you get from it and the pot regen, not the armor. But if you deem it insignificant or not is an opinion. The fact is that it exists. And that's one of the reasons lab is a bad design for hc.

Having less life makes lab easier. That's a fact. Because that's a fact, my opinion about the lab is that it's badly designed for hc.

Happy now fruz? You understood something i said so i threw you a bone. Don't get used to it.

So how is that a bad design for HC? It would be if the lab turns unbeatable if you are wearing Kaoms. But it is far from that. Actually it still makes it a lot easier, because Izaro.

I actually did the lab with lvl32 and lvl49, because the first two labs are now complete walk in the parks. I even did many of the side areas, because they are actually rewarding (sometimes), I got a chest full of quality gems and one with a bunch of currency, which at that point was worth it.

There is no point in overleveling those labs, I even did a full buffed Izaro in Normal because my miner wasn't able to remove those conduits and the other statues. And you can check both my Harbinder chars, they both have 4 points and yes one is a Warchief Berserker so I accepted that everything is trivial, but the miner was more interesting.

So no, Lab gets a lot harder with less HP, not sure how anybody could get the idea it is different. Maybe if you overlevel the lab so far that Izaro is a non-issue. I mean if that is something you are afraid of, you could take of all ES gear and skill CI and pray that GGG is rounding down, not up. And according to your "fact" a 1 Life char should be the best for Lab, because you can't get less Life than 1.

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Emphasy wrote:

So how is that a bad design for HC? It would be if the lab turns unbeatable if you are wearing Kaoms. But it is far from that. Actually it still makes it a lot easier, because Izaro.

Hell if it's a factor in any way, I checked out havoc's hc group a bit earlier, totem inquisitor, life whore RF zerker and two necro aurabots. Lab-friendly every and the last 'un of them, I'm sure they were thinking long and hard how to best deal with that kind of beastly content.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I applaud you for getting the kaom's heart question fruz! It's obvously about the life you get from it and the pot regen, not the armor. But if you deem it insignificant or not is an opinion. The fact is that it exists. And that's one of the reasons lab is a bad design for hc.

Having less life makes lab easier. That's a fact. Because that's a fact, my opinion about the lab is that it's badly designed for hc.

Happy now fruz? You understood something i said so i threw you a bone. Don't get used to it.

And I do not applaud you for not understanding/knowing that potions matter little if you know what you are doing in the lab, especially since people are often running with at the very least 2 if not 3 utility flasks, more for some.

Raics and emphasy do get it though.
And as said earlier, it makes the whole thing likely easier, because Izaro.


You, one more time, only have some emotional **** that you are trying to sell as "fact".
Whole saying to everybody : "this is only your opinion !!!"

We're talking about traps in this thread guys not izaro.

Your opinions and impressions about other people have nothing to do with how things are. I didn't say they were impossibe and i didn't say i have any trouble with them.

If you don't believe it then go back and read.

Your opinion might be that this isn't bad design for hc but i would beg to differ. Anything implemented that undermines a player's defensive investment i consider bad for hc gameplay. That includes shaper. You might think that this is the epitome of hc game design because that's all those thrill seekers want; to play like it's softcore and get blown up suddenly and randomly as raics admitted he views hc to be like. Fuck that. If you are gonna dismiss this with a "it's doable so whatever" then you absolutely have no sense of fair play or hc empathy and i am done with you.

It would be less bullshit if there were % hp pots usable by all and everyone was forced to have the same liferegen movement/ attack and castspeed. Reminds you of something?

That's right, that's mario game rules right there. Mario is bullshit gameplay but at least it has a solid design.

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Pyrokar wrote:

To play like it's softcore and get blown up suddenly and randomly as raics admitted he views hc to be like.

Yup, that's what it boils down to me, can't say I'm a HC enthusiast but I've played it enough to see and feel. I've compared it before to playing, say, Borderlands without dying, to keep it short and simple it's something like this - Borderlands tends to kill you for making an active mistake and PoE usually kills you for making a passive one.

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Fruz wrote:

Which is merely your opinion, and thankfully GGG does not agree with it.
And whatever you say, it won't change that.

GGG provided this Feedback and Suggestions forum because they are interested in customer feedback and suggestions. For example, they have made the first two labyrinths acceptable game play to many that had provided feedback that it was not fun. Saying otherwise is merely your opinion, and thankfully GGG does not agree with it. And whatever you say, it won't change that.

GGG has already begun addressing (what I think is) the Lab's biggest problem for all players: Its excessive punishment of (let alone absence of reward for) players who enjoy exploring content. (Note that visits to reddit do not constitute "exploration.")

Granted, they haven't taken measures far enough yet imo, but it is evident from the changes in the latest patch that they do acknowledge that this is a problem, and are addressing it.

Those who insist and/or imply that the team at GGG doesn't give a fuck that people hate the Labyrinth (a demonstrably untrue assertion) insult them. I think you think you are defending them, but in fact you insult them.

A more useful track for this thread to take is to analyze and discuss those most recent changes. For people who already enjoy playing this content, does the addition of randomization enhance or detract from your prior enjoyment, and why? For people who don't enjoy playing this content, does the addition of randomization make it any more tolerable? If not, is it because the extent is lacking (i.e., they haven't randomized enough), or is it because the approach itself is lacking (i.e., they shouldn't bother randomizing because that isn't the primary factor making the content unfun)?

You all already know my opinion and answers to the above questions, and I think we can guess what Pyrokar's will be. ;) How about the rest of you? Are these changes welcome, or are they meaningless?

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Pyrokar wrote:

We're talking about traps in this thread guys not izaro.

No, we're talking about the lab.
Trying to remove one part of the context because it isn't convenient to you just shows that you are actually lacking arguments.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Anything implemented that undermines a player's defensive investment i consider bad for hc gameplay

And you have failed every single time to explain why.
The goddess "judges" the aspirants going through the labyrinth, and to judges them fairly, there surely need to be less differences between one build and another, between the rich and the poors.

Lab is not just about thrill anyway, it's about having to pay attention and not just playing the game while watching TV and it's about having interesting elements added to the equation, element that are more challenging compared to most of the rest of the content.

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raics wrote:

I've compared it before to playing, say, Borderlands without dying, to keep it short and simple it's something like this - Borderlands tends to kill you for making an active mistake and PoE usually kills you for making a passive one

Is borderland a heavy grind oriented game ?

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Turtledove wrote:

they have made the first two labyrinths acceptable game play to many that had provided feedback that it was not fun. Saying otherwise is merely your opinion, and thankfully GGG does not agree with it. And whatever you say, it won't change that.

If you actually find somebody saying that GGG's changes did not improve the experience for sany of the whiners .... please, show us.

lol

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Those who insist and/or imply that the team at GGG doesn't give a fuck that people hate the Labyrinth (a demonstrably untrue assertion) insult them. I think you think you are defending them, but in fact you insult them.

"doesn't give a fuck" is a bit too strong.
No, what has been said is that bitching over and over and over and over, insulting GGG and circle jerking and stuff isn't likely to push GGG to actually improve the labyrinth ( more than the initial feedback ).

There has been some actual constructive feedback that might have led to some improvements of couple of things in the lab ( the shrine changes maybe, the spreading of the rewards too, giving Izaro's mechanics progressively too ) in that huge joke of a thread.
It's kind of buried under a pile of stinky nonsense though, but there has occasionally been some good things.


I have only been through the normal lab in Harbringer yet ... and it did not seem more randomized at all, what are you referring to ?

This:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1924432/

to which I responded

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1924432/page/21#p14627670

I doubt the randomization-related changes will be obvious or even apparent in the earlier Labyrinths. For better or worse.

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Fruz wrote:

"doesn't give a fuck" is a bit too strong.

Not even remotely too strong. I've heard more or less that exact statement made explicitly dozens of times in this thread, to say nothing of the number of times it's been implied.