SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Kellog wrote:

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And the only reason that people go kill the deep dweller or do the Fairgraves' side quest, is also to fill out their character.
Granted, those other side quests are much quicker and easier than the lab, but it does not remove the fact that it is the only reason why people do those.

You keep using this specious argument and it just doesn't hold water. These quests don't remove a player from the main game, they also don't require knowledge of traps and other Prince of Persia like nonsense.

It does
There is no "main game", the amount of knowledge you need does not matter either

what does not hold water however is saying "the lab is obviously bad, people go in there to get the AC!!!"
Saying that you don't like the way the lab is however is a different argument all together

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Nishrek wrote:

So you are comparing quest like Deshret to the lab? That they are the same "carrots"?

They are carrots, the lab is a carrot as much as Deshret is, period, that's all there is about it being a carrot.

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raics wrote:

So, you are basically saying there that you're killing deep dweller and fetching allflame because it's interesting and fun. Of course it's a carrot, just a smaller one on a shorter stick but the concept is the same.

Pretty much, it's not a hard concept to understand

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Nishrek wrote:

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raics wrote:

So, you are basically saying there that you're killing deep dweller and fetching allflame because it's interesting and fun.

Yes I do. Fetching deep dweller is 100% the same gameplay, as rest of PoE (especially if you play 1st time)

So if the deep dweller had absolutely no reward, you would systematically go there, right ?
No you would not, you would go to something that basically gives you the same experience, but with reward, try to be honest even for a second...

Deshret is a carrot, unless you get lost of course.
People would not look for her if they don't come across is, because it is a carrot.

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Phrazz wrote:

And when it come to all these "liars" - you know there can be lots of people finding the lab hard and needs help, while A LOT of people finds it easy? Let me ask you directly; How many players claiming to find the lab easy, have YOU proven to be liars?

I don't prove people to be liars, some around here just pretend that it is one of the easiest thing of the game, while some of their other posts do indicate that they do have actual difficulty troubles with it (@it takes a lot of time, for example).
and no, I'm not going to dig into the pile of **** that this thread has become.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Actually, I missread J33bus' original quote and the mistake is mine there, that's my bad.
Maybe I focused on this part too much and misunderstood :

Spoiler

I understand that, but what I'm saying is that it's not actually your sample size, you don't actually have a sample size in that sense because your didn't conduct a survey, you just tabulated volunteered feedback, and volunteered feedback is known to not get you a representative population sample, so lots of market research has been done to get you to that 1:25 number.

So if we take that 914 complainer, assuming that 0.5% of the population post on the forum, that would only make 914*25 = ~22850 dislikers compared for a (forum population)*0.5% players population.

That isn't what he said either. In the above equation you're totally ignoring the fact that extremely few people in the player base ever post to the forums.

That is what he said:

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j33bus wrote:

Common market research says about 4% of people with an issue complain. So you only get to multiply by 25 not 200, and of course as stated before you 910 number conflates people who want a minor improvement to the lab, people who are raging because they died, and people who legitimately hate it. Your stats only get you at most 25,000 people, but more likely something like 15,000, when done well.

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J33bus wrote:

Well a quick google search on the subject actually tells me that many studies say that one complaint is worth only about 25 people regardless of population stats.

But as he pointed out, that's for people knowing that they can use the forums to voice their opinion, and you have taken Bayesan inference into account.

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Turtledove wrote:

player base with blond hair could use the same equation that I was using.

No it would not, because people with blond hairs don't have a particular incentive to come and complain (unless you can prove me wrong).
People that dislike something do.
He also pointed out what I have been trying to explain you at first :
" Also of course you're not dealing with possible alt account and other trolls, or the fact that people are more likely to post negative feedback so the flat extrapolation isn't correct."
But he focused on other points that also showed flaws in your reasoning.

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Fruz wrote:

Deshret is a carrot, unless you get lost of course.
People would not look for her if they don't come across is, because it is a carrot.

Funny I quite often find her before exit, and I am not lost.
You simply have no clue where is the difference between both examples, but it is not my task to educate you.

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Nishrek wrote:

Funny I quite often find her before exit, and I am not lost.
You simply have no clue where is the difference between both examples, but it is not my task to educate you.

That's pretty much the same thing as dropping a chase unique as soon as you hit endgame, it doesn't change the fact it's a carrot. Deshret is just on a really, really, really short stick.

Compare with the points you get for Piety, they aren't a carrot right now but they used to be. Why do you think that is?

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jeonitsoc wrote:

i've noticed this thread, after reading it i noticed that it's very old, with so many pages; decided to leave a trace of my passage, meaningless, but none the less: git gud.

I am very gud, I can pay 2c and take a dump on the toilet with the best of them while Lab exploiter finishes it for me!

Oh right the hypocrisy wouldn't let me do this, I forgot for a second.

In the lab's case, the stick is an anal probe and the carrot is a moaning pamela anderson.

Apples and spaceships.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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jeonitsoc wrote:

i've noticed this thread, after reading it i noticed that it's very old, with so many pages; decided to leave a trace of my passage, meaningless, but none the less: git gud.

Thank you for voicing your opinion. Will the responsible person please add jeonitsoc to the git gud list.

There isnt a git gud list, if you want to start one by all means do so, i know how much you enjoy useless list.

Ever notice the get gud people were the ones who complained the most when I wanted LAB to be solo self found only.

HMMMM its like they have an interest in keeping it groupable.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

HMMMM its like they have an interest in keeping it groupable.

You mean like the rest of the game?


Don't you think its funny how the people that complain about the lab being different are pushing for it to be different in another aspect. LOL


At least follow your script dude.

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raics wrote:

Compare with the points you get for Piety, they aren't a carrot right now but they used to be. Why do you think that is?

I have to kill Piety. Carrot or no carrot. Before she was a farming boss (like Meph in D2) anyway.
Really, you really comparing a quest that is maybe (if you do not have superior clearing speed) 1 min detour (if you did not found the items anyway already of course) to the Lab?
BTW if you are curious. In most cases, I fetch items to Fairgraves in A3, despite the reward being total shit.

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goetzjam wrote:

Don't you think its funny how the people that complain about the lab being different are pushing for it to be different in another aspect. LOL

Don't you think its funny how the people that complain about the lab being only challenging content are pushing for it to be easily done by paying currency. LOL

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Nishrek wrote:

I have to kill Piety. Carrot or no carrot. Before she was a farming boss (like Meph in D2) anyway.
Really, you really comparing a quest that is maybe (if you do not have superior clearing speed) 1 min detour (if you did not found the items anyway already of course) to the Lab?
BTW if you are curious. In most cases, I fetch items to Fairgraves in A3, despite the reward being total shit.

I am. You didn't have to kill Piety before, you could just go into maps but you chose to kill her because you wanted her rewards, which were skill points and items if farming, that means she was carrot content.

However, now you're killing her not because of her rewards but because you want to reach act 4 for dried lake and last skill point so she isn't the carrot anymore. See the difference? It doesn't matter how far you're going or what you're doing, if you're doing it for the reward it's a carrot.

I'm also killing Fairgraves for the completitionism, in what way is that relevant? Unless you're saying carrots are the only reason we're playing PoE.

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raics wrote:

I'm also killing Fairgraves for the completitionism, in what way is that relevant? Unless you're saying carrots are the only reason we're playing PoE.

No. You are saying exactly this. By asking me constantly if I would do sidequests if there were no rewards.