SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Mooginator wrote:

So I just did Merc Lab in 3.0 BETA with a level 77 Necro 5L SRS Baron build with 4K health. BTW the average number of deaths of my characters to level 70-80 is ~2 (most of my SRS builds have 0 deaths by 70).

Of course it had 2 golden keys and took forever to get through, which was irritating enough as is.

First two phases of Izuro were cake; took him down in ~10 seconds.

Third phase? Wouldn't die. Ran around trying to kite and SRS for ~2 minutes. Ran out of flasks, and he completely ignored my Decoy totem and just came at me head on again and again, giving me only a chance to fire off 1-2 SRS every few seconds as I ran around.

Anyway, died when he was ~2%. So. A good 15+ minutes wasted on a stupidly OP (and not fun at all) fight with bullshit golden doors.

Remember folks, in 3.0 the bosses have more than DOUBLE the health in 2.6. So this means Izuro is twice as hard to kill now.

Anyway, I just walked away from the character; I'm that pissed off. Yes, I can keep running maps, and yes, I can get my 6L and all of that, but the reality is this character should have been able to do Merc lab no problem; I'd say I die in the lab less than 5% of all deaths, so I know how to run it pretty efficiently. Oh, and the Izuro fight has changed in 3.0 it is more "Involved" than before. Not sure exactly how (beyond more health) but there's more "action".

The core of this? Fuck the lab. It's just as shitty as it was prior to 3.0. Yes, Normal and Cruel are "quicker" but the boss fight is tougher, and Merc lab is MUCH tougher than before due to Izuro's enhanced health (and whatever allowed him to survive my SRS build @ L77).

It's still a miserable experience that pisses me off to no end, and yes, still drives me away from playing characters (and sometimes the game).

Why the hell would a player in my situation say "oh, dang. Guess I'll try again."? Nope. The majority of players who fail the lab (with two fantastic time wasting golden doors) say "fuck this" and go do something else. This is a fact (and can be seen in steams, etc.). That alone shows how shitty the lab is and how it pisses players off and drives them away. And given less than 1% of all players ever do the Uber lab... well, that just speaks for itself.

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience. I love PoE, but the lab is an utter shitfest that simply will not die even though it needs to. Shortening Normal/Cruel was "ok" but as mentioned, Merc is harder than before, and of course those points are often critical for most builds to function at end-game.

Great job, GGG! Keep up the crappy system that just pisses the majority of players off but is required for character growth!

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Nishrek wrote:

Not being vocal about lab =/= liking current lab design
This is a fact.

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Fruz wrote:

[...] of the playerbase that does not care much or like it come here to express what they think about it.

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J33bus wrote:

Well a quick google search on the subject actually tells me that many studies say that one complaint is worth only about 25 people regardless of population stats.

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andreicide wrote:

Instead of random calculations and assumptions and other yada yada bullshit, let's look at the fact at hand.

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Turtledove wrote:

Fruz, your above statements are completely irrelevant to the above equation.

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Turtledove wrote:

Nope, you're comparing apples and oranges. The 0.5% figure is not people complaining. That is the total number of active players that have posted to the forums.

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Mooginator wrote:

[...]

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Fruz wrote:

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Nishrek wrote:

Not being vocal about lab =/= liking current lab design
This is a fact.

You should try harder to read what other people say :

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Fruz wrote:

[...] of the playerbase that does not care much or like it come here to express what they think about it.

If people can't be bothered to come here and voice their opinion, then it's fine ( unless they quit, but the game's population has recently been pretty good, so ... ).

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J33bus wrote:

Well a quick google search on the subject actually tells me that many studies say that one complaint is worth only about 25 people regardless of population stats.

I did try to explain this, I didn't think that it would go as far as to be 1/25 though lol.
I'm glad that someone that has much deeper statistics knowledge ( much more than my basic understanding and what common sense helps me understand about it ) is here, thanks!

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andreicide wrote:

Instead of random calculations and assumptions and other yada yada bullshit, let's look at the fact at hand.

Let's look at the facts :
Since the lab has been introcued, the game's player base has grown bigger.
We can end the story there I guess.

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Turtledove wrote:

Fruz, your above statements are completely irrelevant to the above equation.

No they are not, I am merely trying to show you that your "914/0.5%" operation is completely fallacious.
Judging by what J33bus just said, a roughly actual estimate would be (914/0.5%)*(1/25).
Each poster here does not represent 200 players.

Fair enough about the "literacy" thing, it seemed to me as you were using misstyping mistakes to try to provoke something or whatever, I was only writing from a phone as I sometimes do, there was nothing like a personality change.

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Turtledove wrote:

Nope, you're comparing apples and oranges. The 0.5% figure is not people complaining. That is the total number of active players that have posted to the forums.

Which is not representative of the total playerbase.
That has been my point from the start.

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Fruz wrote:

I am saying that we do not have the data, and that GGG has some data, it is a very simple fact.
Now if you cannot understand it, it's none of my concern.

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Turtledove wrote:

One person in a sample set theoretically represents many people in the target population set. So if you have a sample size of 0.5% of the total population then each person represents 200 people. It is simply the way that a sample set works.

You fellows are misusing the 25 people thing. The 25 people thing is simply a study that indicates that only one in 25 people are going to complain. That is irrelevant to the way you fellows are using that figure. This is completely separate from and has nothing to do with sample size. You're trying to conflate the two which is incorrect.

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Kellog wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I am saying that we do not have the data, and that GGG has some data, it is a very simple fact.
Now if you cannot understand it, it's none of my concern.

Actually, you spent several posts lecturing people about the telemetry GGG can collect and then making assumptions about what they could extrapolate from said telemetry.

As I've said before, stop making assumptions about something you have no first hand knowledge of.

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Fruz wrote:

If people can't be bothered to come here and voice their opinion, then it's fine ( unless they quit, but the game's population has recently been pretty good, so ... )

...

Let's look at the facts :
Since the lab has been introcued, the game's player base has grown bigger.
We can end the story there I guess.

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Kellog wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

If people can't be bothered to come here and voice their opinion, then it's fine ( unless they quit, but the game's population has recently been pretty good, so ... )

...

Let's look at the facts :
Since the lab has been introcued, the game's player base has grown bigger.
We can end the story there I guess.

To suggest the addition of the lab is in some way responsible for any growth in the player base is questionable at best.

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Fruz wrote:

I have merely said that they have data.
Which is definitely true, thinking that GGG has absolutely no data regarding their own game ( which would mean no logging system ) is really stupid at best.

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I gave some examples of what they could have because some here seem to be too thick to understand that simple fact.