SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Sure they have automated data gathering tools, but it is more effective to manually check the beta topic and get the data from each post personally...
Just LOL

Thank you for showing us your lack of reading here.
It tells a lot.

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I agree with everything except reading minds is not the only way. The other way I can think of is the sophisticated use of powerful magic. :-)

We should probably consider burning the next market analyst we meet at the stake. Just in case.

Only if he is a lab lover. 'Arrrrrr.

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Here's the calculation. If 0.5% of the players post in the forum then 914/0.5% = 182,000 players have a problem with labyrinth. Since you hopefully have your thinking cap on now, perhaps you could start with explaining how that has anything to do with your poll assertion? Or perhaps just admit that Captain Obvious was mistaken and address the issue? Note, that anyone else with their thinking caps on could also join in.

It was not about poll at all, it's about how people that can't be bothered just don't come here to say that they are fine with the lab, or that it's not a big deal, or that they really like it.

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Fruz wrote:

It has been said many ( countless ? ) times in this forum's section, that when people are not happy with something, they are much, much more likely to come here and complain, than people that don't have any problem with the content, just like it, or simply could not bother.

=> that 0.5% are complaining on the forum about it ( and let's say 0.3% "defending" it), there could as well be 10% of the lab population that really dislike it, which would means that 1/20 of the people would complain here, when 80/0.2 <=> 1/266 of the playerbase that does not care much or like it come here to express what they think about it.

Those numbers are just examples to show you the reasoning, nothing more, they are not in any way accurate or anything.

Here's the equation being discussed.
914/0.5% = 182,000 estimated players have a problem with labyrinth out of the active player base

The 0.5% was my hypothetical guess as to the percentage of people out of the active player base that have posted in the forums about ANYTHING in the past 16 months.

The 914 figure is the current number of names in the list. Over 330 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 910 posters in support

People coming here to say that they are fine with the lab is completely irrelevant to the equation and not used in the calculation. Please remind yourself again that we're not talking about a poll here.

Your other calculations seem to have absolutely no bearing on the equation that we were discussing.

Did you forgot to put on your thinking cap?

Well in light of the above calculation I don't remember if I have ever posted in this thread before, so I'll do it now just in case, by saying: fuck the lab! From one-shot mechanics, to never ending trap corridors, to the occasional disconnect sending you back to farming trials, yeah, this is probably the most frustrating part of the game.

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Turtledove wrote:

[...]

I even gave you an example ....


People that don't like something are more likely to voice their opinion here
-> among the posters here (<=>the players using the forum), the proportion of "lab hater" is (much) higher than among the player that do not voice their opinion.

Let's simplify it even more.

If you have 100 players, 20 dislike the lab, 55 are neutral, 19 like it, 6 really like it ( example here ).
Let's say ... 11 "dislikers" are voicing their opinion, the neutrals can't be bothered, 2 "likers" voice their opinion, and 2 that really like it voice their opinion.


We have 15 people voicing their opinion, including 11 that dislike it.
Let's take your fallacious reasoning, dividing 11 by 0.15 = we have now an estimation 73 players that dislike the lab ( when in fact .... it's 20 ).

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Turtledove" wrote:

Did you forgot to put on your thinking cap?

(and you where the one attacking me on my English, earlier in this thread ?)

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JohnWeps wrote:

Well in light of the above calculation I don't remember if I have ever posted in this thread before, so I'll do it now just in case, by saying: fuck the lab! From one-shot mechanics, to never ending trap corridors, to the occasional disconnect sending you back to farming trials, yeah, this is probably the most frustrating part of the game.

Thank you for once again voicing your valuable opinion on the disliked labyrinth! According to the hypothetical 0.5% above your voice represented 200 active players that have never posted on the forum. Please note that Fruz's voice also represents 200 active players that have never posted on the forum according to the hypothetical 0.5%.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Here's the calculation. If 0.5% of the players post in the forum then 914/0.5% = 182,000 players have a problem with labyrinth. Since you hopefully have your thinking cap on now, perhaps you could start with explaining how that has anything to do with your poll assertion? Or perhaps just admit that Captain Obvious was mistaken and address the issue? Note, that anyone else with their thinking caps on could also join in.

It was not about poll at all, it's about how people that can't be bothered just don't come here to say that they are fine with the lab, or that it's not a big deal, or that they really like it.

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Fruz wrote:

It has been said many ( countless ? ) times in this forum's section, that when people are not happy with something, they are much, much more likely to come here and complain, than people that don't have any problem with the content, just like it, or simply could not bother.

=> that 0.5% are complaining on the forum about it ( and let's say 0.3% "defending" it), there could as well be 10% of the lab population that really dislike it, which would means that 1/20 of the people would complain here, when 80/0.2 <=> 1/266 of the playerbase that does not care much or like it come here to express what they think about it.

Those numbers are just examples to show you the reasoning, nothing more, they are not in any way accurate or anything.

Here's the equation being discussed.
914/0.5% = 182,000 estimated players have a problem with labyrinth out of the active player base

The 0.5% was my hypothetical guess as to the percentage of people out of the active player base that have posted in the forums about ANYTHING in the past 16 months.

The 914 figure is the current number of names in the list. Over 330 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 910 posters in support

People coming here to say that they are fine with the lab is completely irrelevant to the equation and not used in the calculation. Please remind yourself again that we're not talking about a poll here.

Your other calculations seem to have absolutely no bearing on the equation that we were discussing.

Did you forgot to put on your thinking cap?

You haven't accounted for background and other major statistical biases in your data taking method, most of all that your list doesn't actually include people who are in your list whose problems have been solved, or people who have a small problem with the lab but generally like it. Also of course you're not dealing with possible alt account and other trolls, or the fact that people are more likely to post negative feedback so the flat extrapolation isn't correct. Did you forget to put on your bayesian thinking cap to do stats right? Because without a whole lot more work your list can ONLY be interpreted as these specific people had someone negative to say about the lab at the time, but don't necessarily have anything bad to say now.

Well a quick google search on the subject actually tells me that many studies say that one complaint is worth only about 25 people regardless of population stats.

Not being vocal about lab =/= liking current lab design
This is a fact.
This one fact is enough to invalidate your argument about "silent majority"
Also about "infinite amount of data" (BTW check what word "infinite" means next time)
It is funny that in Beta forum they are requesting answers which should be easily collected by the automated data gathering (also much precise, and on a bigger sample, because not 100% of beta players answers in this thread). Unless of course, they do not collect so much RAW data, or not consider it so relevant as you claim...
It was already explained that GGG can't get relevant data from their telemetry, and they can't use it to decide how big part of the community actually finds lab interesting.
And this is a fact.

Not sure where fruz is getting his number but his assumption is dumb as hell. In my guild every time I build lab 3/4 of my guild complains about it and voice their discontent with it. Did all of them voice their frustration on the forum? No, just because 1 of the assumption that GGG does not care about feedback, so do yourself a favor and stop embarrassing yourself by trying to embellish numbers.

Instead of random calculations and assumptions and other yada yada bullshit, let's look at the fact at hand. Numbers of people that voice their discontent for the forum versus number of people that love it. The whole idea that ''GGG have the internal numbers'' is a joke. No, they do not have the numbers if they ask people on the beta to provide their feedback on lab.