SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]
" I rarely had issues running it. You didn't either because you only ran it like 3 times before your post started polluting this forum. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
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" Well, my rule of thumb is - if you don't need programming knowledge to fix it, it wasn't a bug. If they mess up balance in some way or forget to set some value I don't see it as a bug in the code because it's working properly, but that's just me. Yeah, barstool philosophy. " It sure was, I don't think anyone can deny that. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► |
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" Umm no analogy here. I am confused. POE is code. |
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" I understand your view. Even though the Lab should be burnt to a husk eradicated and the designer made to write an apology I am willing to compromise. I am willing to compromise and let people who do not know better to still run it , even for the over inflated bribe loot (to compensate for it being fun). I even understand talented people make mistakes and seriously don't expect an apology (that part was a joke). This is the problem when you start with a compromise. People want more and more and more. It's not a negotiation like I said. It will not change. People posting are just giving affirmations why they quit and how they might CONSIDER giving this game another chance. We honestly will all try the new content and probably all quit again. Just saying ..... Last edited by Zalhan2#1986 on Jul 11, 2017, 7:23:19 PM
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" People like dieing they just do not want to waste 20 minutes of tedious bullshit every time they die. Last edited by Zalhan2#1986 on Jul 11, 2017, 7:25:43 PM
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" It's a forum people vent, forever if they want. No one HAS to read this. I doubt a developer has bothered for 6 months. |
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" Every developer if he has been around enough has built a design and coded it to the customer's expectations and found out they made a mistake and want something else. Its still your responsibility to work with them to give them a good product no matter who fucked up. |
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To fruz: I know my suggested changes to the current Labyrinth are probably too idealistic, and the best of them would require too much work for going back to "old content", as GGG is prone to moving on to newer things rather than going back to change old things. This is entirely why I favor an alternative method of gaining Ascendancy Points that keeps the current Labyrinth mostly unchanged for those who may even love the current Labyrinth.
--- To nobody in particular (the rest of my post): If we're stuck only changing the current labyrinth: At a MINIMUM, I'd add waypoints after each Izaro encounter. * Izaro's after-battle HP status would be saved, so each time the next fight started, he would always start at that set amount, no matter how much zerging is tried - also zergs would still require running all the way from one Izaro battle to the next, not just the room before each battle. * With the caveat that using the waypoints at any point will make Ascendancy Points be the only reward at the end, and the run would not count toward the Labyrinth race ladders. * The waypoints would deactivate once you die in the labyrinth (optionally, they stay active even after death in Standard leagues - let Hardcore keep their hardcore elements), or leave through the final portal of the labyrinth in the treasure room. Only the most current labyrinth waypoint would stay active at any given point (deactivates earlier waypoints). THAT would alleviate the disconnect issue for people who only want Ascendancy points from the Labyrinth, while avoiding most of the potential negatives some have brought against waypoints. This would by no means make the Labyrinth more fun, or make the implementation of traps feel any more PoE-ish, but it would fix one major problem that I don't think they'll fix by increasing server stability around the world, while also fixing individual user's internet connections, especially those who only have access to wifi (this is not me, I'm just saying) and yes, I do think people playing on wifi deserve to play this game the same as me on cable. --- Additional suggested changes become more and more controversial, while also more and more important to making the labyrinth into "fun" PoE content, IMO. (usually because they're more subjective to what each individual thinks makes PoE PoE or fun fun.) To me, the strengths of PoE mostly rest in the skilldrasil, choice of gems for attacks/defenses/effects, and gear. The "fun" from most of the game is derived from using those things to kill monsters and get loot. That is the core of PoE to me, and the complex interactions with Uniques are what drew me here. So many possibilities. The labyrinth, at its core, negates MOST (not all) of those choices. THAT is what makes me feel that the Labyrinth is out of place in PoE (Build? What build? I'm a trap, I don't usually care all that much.) The payoff for this ignoring of stats?: you cannot overlevel the labyrinth, so it's always a danger, even going through normal as a 100 you can die pretty easily. Is this payoff worth it? Sounds to me like they wanted Ascendancy Classes to be an endgame tack-on to your build, not something you do at the levels you can first access each part of the Labyrinth. To me, this is an unclear design vision that has been implemented in an unclear way and in a way that goes against the core foundation of the game itself. What would be most beneficial here, would be an actual current Dev Manifesto, to hear directly from an official source, what their design goals were for the content, and what they want to see from it in the future. Did they intend for what we now see as the results? If no, we can work toward presenting suggestions that help work toward those goals, or suggest alternate ways to achieve those goals. Right now, all we have to go on are the devs's silence and inaction in many cases (or small actions and modifications here and there, in other cases - mostly balance or bug fixes, or adapting to a difficulty-free game), which can be interpreted multiple ways from either side of the debate, and a flippant comment about a vocal minority. The basis for the conversation cannot be boiled down to "git gud", because it's not universally hard content for all who dislike the labyrinth content - it may be for some, and that may be the only reason some people dislike the content, but not all. Until that is recognized and accepted no headway in the thread will be made with the participants we see most active here.(and acceptance here means no longer using it as a reason to shoot down any and all suggestions as a desire to make the game easier, which is nonsense - essentially, it has to be understood that some people who are good at the content still dislike it, and they have a valid concern. (headway may be made by the devs who are hearing both sides and agree with a currently unpopular sentiment in this thread) This thread itself has successfully produced feedback and suggestions that I think are beneficial to the PoE dev team. And no matter how much anti-change posting by members of the community continues, I will continue to provide GGG with my feedback, as it is just as important and valid. --- I started writing this whole post at work during downtime, and now that I'm home, I don't want to continue the line of reasoning found in the next spoiler, in this post, but I'll leave this tangential musing here for fun.
Spoiler
In a sort of side-note to the overall conversation:
I feel the Labyrinth strikes a nerve with the defenders of their favorite PoE elements that feel their position is threatened (either by the Labyrinth's implementation, or by suggested changes to the current labyrinth). There are a mix of all these defenders on both sides of the Labyrinth debate overall (sometimes it sounds contradictory, but they're different people with different points of view and may be defending different aspects of the same content). Some are against the widespread introduction of one-shot mechanics, bullet-hell bosses, super-speed screen-wide one-shot clearing of trash monsters, and right now, the Labyrinth is just this. It's a horrible mess of things that negate stats and focus on piloting skill above all else - move wrong and die (or close to it), move slow and die (or close to it), mis-click and die (or close to it), lag and die (or close to it). * Note, there are people who would say the labyrinth fights the clear-speed meta by making people slow down and deal with traps... but then you see people bypassing traps with superspeed and scratch your head in confusion. Some are against making it easier or more fun, or less tedious, in their eyes, because it makes it less profitable if more people are doing it. I'd guess this is an admittedly small number, but it's probably behind some of the anti-change sentiment we see today. Some are against the casualization of PoE. Making things too easy. Changes that are deemed "Quality of Life" are seen as evil. You're meant to suffer in this game, right? It's only for Hardcore people, after all.
Spoiler
(Hardcore is just the ruleset of one attempt, one death, in this context, btw) This gets messy when people start thinking hardcore is a mentality where hardcore people are more devoted to the game than "casuals" who only play a little - I'd say I'm a hardcore casual... in that sense... I do lots of theorycrafting while at work, researching, but only play a little when I have time, and I prefer to play standard mode, since I hate losing progress in any game I play. Games aren't my life.
People who defend the hardcore-ness of PoE often use the slippery slope attack, and that's really irritating, since while something COULD happen, it doesn't mean it will, and given enough reasonable thought, it won't. The powercreep introduced with Ascendancy Points is on the firing line as well for this defense of PoE, and since they know they can't fight this instance of powercreep, they'll defend to the death any and all things that make it harder or less fun to acquire this power, so less people have it, and at least they "worked" for it. Edit: missing the word *through* to clarify leaving through the exit portal of the labyrinth being one condition that deactivates the labyrinth waypoints in that suggestion. Last edited by Zaludoz#6325 on Jul 12, 2017, 7:25:15 AM
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" I like your rule of thumb. Now about Turtle : - so it does not prove you right, and you have actual nothing to back up what you are claiming, so it is "silly semantic" ? I see ... - The part about "head in the sand" is very, very ironic here. As much as some design flaws could arguably beconsidered bug by some ( check the link I shared in one of my previous recent messages here ), balance changes such as the 60% coefficient was nothing like a bug. Or are you considering that every balance changes are bug fixes, and that the "6% increase glacial hammer damage" was a "bug fix" ? lol! And would you consider it fixed then ? Then what would be a fix ? There would not be one, the balance will never ever be perfect, so are you going to extend your "logic" and consider that the whole game is a giant bug ? And by the way " The developpers are asked to implement stuff, and when they are done implementing it, if it behaves as they expect, there is no bug, period. The balance is another story, it's outside of the developping/programming team ( developping here being used to call the people coding, building up the game technically ). @Zaludoz : too long, I will give it a look later lol. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jul 12, 2017, 1:54:32 AM
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" Good post in general. And yes, I believe that single change would cut out 3/4 of the hate for the lab and make another 3/4 of the rest stop posting because "git gud" answers would actually make at least some sense. May your maps be bountiful, exile
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