SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Pyrokar wrote:
The sentinel traps were something they did right.

Can't say I dig them more than normal traps myself, the concept is ok but hardly the best thing since sliced bread. Any other fans of sentinels here?
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Being a developer too, bugs are bugs. If it's working as intended but not working that's still a real bug in the customer's eyes.

The patient doesn't care what kind of tumor it is just if he is going to live.

You can also write code that just is bad and can't be fixed from a design not execution perspective. When that happens you start over with a new design.

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People want to ignore stuff and not be killed in an arpg.


ftfy

https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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Zalhan2 wrote:
Being a developer too, bugs are bugs. If it's working as intended but not working that's still a real bug in the customer's eyes.

The patient doesn't care what kind of tumor it is just if he is going to live.

You can also write code that just is bad and can't be fixed from a design not execution perspective. When that happens you start over with a new design.


Zalhan, the analogies. For the love of Dominus.
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
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People want their build choices to not be ignored by an ARPG's content, where that ARPG prides itself on build choice diversity. They want their stats to matter in an RPG, go figure.


ftfy
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Zaludoz wrote:
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People want their build choices to not be ignored by an ARPG's content, where that ARPG prides itself on build choice diversity. They want their stats to matter in an RPG, go figure.


ftfy



The content as a whole doesn't ignore the build choices, you point to one thing and say see it doesn't care if I have armor or block or whatever, but the boss does, the mobs do. The lab is an all encompassing challenge that has various aspects that do care about the choices you have made. If you weren't so blindly looking at one specific thing and saying SEE SEE IT DOESNT FIT you might actually fucking see it.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
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raics wrote:
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Turtledove wrote:
Design bugs are a huge problem with the horrible labyrinth. There were a very large amount of implementation bugs but all of the things I mentioned were examples of design bugs.
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e.g., 60% damage for ES, normal and cruel labs cut in half, trials scaled back to a fraction of the original horrible overwhelming mess.
ALL DESIGN BUGS that have been admitted to by GGG and fixed.

Hate to be nitpicking this, but 'design' and 'bug' are mutually exclusive, design is an intentional process and a bug is an unintentional occurrence. It's probably better to call it 'a design mistake', they made a decision and it didn't work out.


Actually, as much as I would agree with you, it's unfortunately not that simple, or that black and white, check this link if you are interested.

It might also depends on the country or region, who knows, language differs from one place to another, and change.
But if we follow Turtle's definition, then absolutely all balance changes would be "bugs" ... which is a bit ridiculous, isn't it ?
GGG intended ES to take as much damage, they realized that it was not very balanced though, so they tweaked it, but none of it was unintended.
But it was not balanced enough.

The result was likely what they expected it to be.
The definition of a bug is something that produces an unintended result, GGG obviously first wanted their ES user to take the full damage, on a technical point of view, it worked as intended.

But I won't personally mix the balance, and the design.
A flawed design can lead to an unbalanced state of the game, however you tweak it I believe ( ex : the melee vs range in the current clear speed meta, but would you call that a bug ? I would not. ), but an intended design (not flawed) could also leads to an unbalanced state, only from intended things.

So yeah, it's pretty much turning into nitpicking, it could be interesting but ....


I will just stop on :
"A bug is something that produces and unintended result" and won't mix the balance and the design => The ES tweaks were not a bug fix, just a balance adjustment.

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raics wrote:

Yeah, I know what you wanted to say, the name just doesn't make much sense.

Agree.
But that's something where we might all agree on at the end of the day imho.


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Raics wrote:
there was no reason to make them percentage. Actually, no idea why the bleed trap is, assuming I'm right.

Well, I have 7k+ ES and a correct armour value, and bleed traps are not much of a problem to me, I can almost ignore them in most cases, so I doubt it.

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Zalhan2 wrote:
Being a developer too, bugs are bugs. If it's working as intended but not working that's still a real bug in the customer's eyes.

The customer's eyes have no relevance here though, customer's opinion has absolutely nothing to do with something being a bug or not.
It just means that if a significant enough amount of users would stop using the software, the develop ping company might need to think about it.
But simple users do not have the knowledge/mastery to be able to judge what is a bug and isn't.


Balance issues needs to be addressed by the balance team.
Bugs need to be addressed by the developing team.


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Goetzjam wrote:


The content as a whole doesn't ignore the build choices, you point to one thing and say see it doesn't care if I have armor or block or whatever, but the boss does, the mobs do. The lab is an all encompassing challenge that has various aspects that do care about the choices you have made. If you weren't so blindly looking at one specific thing and saying SEE SEE IT DOESNT FIT you might actually fucking see it.

Brutus does not care about my chaos resistance, WHAT IS THIS BS THING, IT IGNORES MY CHOICES !!!!

The traps just go a bit farther than this.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jul 11, 2017, 10:12:10 AM
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goetzjam wrote:
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Zaludoz wrote:
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People want their build choices to not be ignored by an ARPG's content, where that ARPG prides itself on build choice diversity. They want their stats to matter in an RPG, go figure.


ftfy



The content as a whole doesn't ignore the build choices, you point to one thing and say see it doesn't care if I have armor or block or whatever, but the boss does, the mobs do. The lab is an all encompassing challenge that has various aspects that do care about the choices you have made. If you weren't so blindly looking at one specific thing and saying SEE SEE IT DOESNT FIT you might actually fucking see it.


In before horrible Lab, bad design etc. etc. etc.

Round and round we go...
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos#5130 on Jul 11, 2017, 10:11:52 AM
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Xavathos wrote:
In before horrible Lab, bad design etc. etc. etc.

Round and round we go...





Feels like deja vu ...
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jul 11, 2017, 10:15:30 AM
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Fruz wrote:

Feels like deja vu ...


It's not, history IS repeating itself, because both sides of the debate are throwing around the same stupid (read: old) arguments over and over again, only to be met with, well, the same arguments over and over again.

No one is capable of saying: "I understand your view, I respect it and you're allowed to feel that way" without trying to diminish his/her arguments, either with stupid, childish remarks, or bullshit accusation.

I think a part of this "irritated mood" comes from the fact that people just don't know your side of the debate: Do you guys actually LIKE the lab THAT much, or are you in here just to defend the fact that lab IS here, they HAVE implemented it, respect their decision?

I know at least a couple of the "pro lab" guys in here already told us they run it ONCE, ergo, personally don't see any replay value what so ever, despite the rewards. And you know? That is totally OK.

But that brings us to: Why is this so important? No hate, no love. Why? I'm here because I dislike it. You are here because?

Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Jul 11, 2017, 10:28:21 AM

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