SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Still in beta. Might revert the changes or implement better ones.

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Pyrokar wrote:

Still in beta. Might revert the changes or implement better ones.

Yes. Reverting seems unlikely, but improvements could easily be made, provided we give them more than "Lab sucks" and a thread full of mud throwing to work with. I trust them, so it's no problem to me personally, but the last 10-20 pages hardly seem useful. Now's the time to provide proper feedback if you want changes.

After watching Pohx's video, two things seem clear. Changes made this time to lab were done with limited time and resources (which makes sense, given other priorities) and more changes to lab are probably coming.

The lab UI has the still existing levels of difficulty listed. But, the UI will be introduced at a point in the game's development when those difficulties will no longer exist. That seems odd and it will lead new players soloing lab to be confused. My guess is that will change, but I'm not certain what the solution will look like.

Players do six trials before a normal lab that has almost no traps and one trial before a merciless lab that has many traps. That seems off.

It seems like everything many players dislike or hate about uber lab and merc enchants will still be present. Lots of feedback will be given about these issues, I would guess.

Despite some glaring issues, though, as an interim solution there is a kind of sense to what they're doing. Those who like lab get to run it as an endgame activity in pretty much the same form in which it currently exists. Those who dislike or hate lab get at least one or two difficulties where the pain factor has gone down by quite a bit.

To me, it seems like the lab was designed for three difficulties, with no real plan what to do with it after they removed the difficulties. Will the names "normal, cruel and merciless" still float around regarding the lab?

I'm glad they've changed some aspects. The less there is of bad content, the better the situation gets.

If they are hellbent on keeping the lab, which is pretty clear that they are, I think the best option would be to make it one big lab (in addition to the end game one). This lab would make you "ascend", make you "receptive" for more powers and the game would throw you certain other ways of "improving" this ascended state. But then came the Pantheon System, and "stole" that idea :(

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Phrazz wrote:

To me, it seems like the lab was designed for three difficulties, with no real plan what to do with it after they removed the difficulties. Will the names "normal, cruel and merciless" still float around regarding the lab?

I'm glad they've changed some aspects. The less there is of bad content, the better the situation gets.

If they are hellbent on keeping the lab, which is pretty clear that they are, I think the best option would be to make it one big lab (in addition to the end game one). This lab would make you "ascend", make you "receptive" for more powers and the game would throw you certain other ways of "improving" this ascended state. But then came the Pantheon System, and "stole" that idea :(

The removal of difficulties also makes the lore for ascending through lab even more confusing and disjointed, which the beta lab UI indirectly hints at.

IIRC, there was a key developer who really wanted a giant labyrinth in the game and there was something like ascendancies in their plans. But, these two things were not initially thought of as needing to be together. I don't think it's a stretch for GGG to loosen the connection between lab and ascending by putting in place an alternative for ascending.

I like your idea of becoming receptive to ascending, though, and then ascending naturally as you keep adventuring.

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Regulator wrote:

After Kripp's public disgust vs the lab reddit thread and twitch video

After Mathil's constant mockery of it in many videos one of which is this one (he uses the term shit very often for the lab fyi)

After projectPT direct questioning and criticism of it in the Q&A(4:20) with Chris where the latter tactfully ignored the question

Now comes Pohx with his newest videos(5:05-6:05) about it showing how really boring and alienating this content is.

Ok, watched it a bit and I have to ask, are those the right links you wanted to show? Kripp stopped playing long before we got the lab, PT was talking about PoE development in general terms (pretty much the same thing he quit the game for) and Pohx even said he hated it but 'doesn't mind it' with these new changes.
Mathil did use 'shit' a fair bit, though, he was quoting those that claim lab is long and challenging and also used it a few times in unrelated terms, like saying his gear is crap. I got the impression the point of his video is to demonstrate it's easier and faster than it looks rather than being antagonistic.

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Xavathos wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

Still in beta. Might revert the changes or implement better ones.

Yes. Reverting seems unlikely, but improvements could easily be made, provided we give them more than "Lab sucks" and a thread full of mud throwing to work with. I trust them, so it's no problem to me personally, but the last 10-20 pages hardly seem useful. Now's the time to provide proper feedback if you want changes.

Honestly, i'd rather they revert it back to how it was before the beta. It's still bad content.

Make the pre map trials account wide, make the labyrinth a real one with much more randomisation so that even if you look up where to go on reddit, you might still get lost. And lastly, code in hidden passageways that are accesible through levers or movement skills or small puzzles that help you bypass each trap gauntlet in each room.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

WHo cares about the changes it's like someone complaining you took a dump on their door. To respond to it you scoop half off the door and leave.

Sorry Zalahan2, I think it is more like they scooped 2/3 off the door and leave. :-)


Here's my guess as to what happened. GGG decided that they should shorten the normal labyrinth because players that run lab highly over leveled meant that normal lab would be a bit more hassle in 3.0 than now due to the resistances thing. They sent up a test balloon of their plan here, Changes to the Labyrinth. The thread turned into a shit storm of labyrinth hate. Even more concerning to GGG the large majority of lab hate posts were people that had never before made a lab hate post. The only option that GGG really had at that point in the development cycle of 3.0 to help fix labyrinth was to do what they did.

edit: On the very positive side, it seems clear that labyrinth is still on GGG's radar for improvements.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

WHo cares about the changes it's like someone complaining you took a dump on their door. To respond to it you scoop half off the door and leave.

Sorry Zalahan2, I think it is more like they scooped 2/3 off the door and leave. :-)


Here's my guess as to what happened. GGG decided that they should shorten the normal labyrinth because players that run lab highly over leveled meant that normal lab would be a bit more hassle in 3.0 than now due to the resistances thing. They sent up a test balloon of their plan here, Changes to the Labyrinth. The thread turned into a shit storm of labyrinth hate. Even more concerning to GGG the large majority of lab hate posts were people that had never before made a lab hate post. The only option that GGG really had at that point in the development cycle of 3.0 to help fix labyrinth was to do what they did.

edit: On the very positive side, it seems clear that labyrinth is still on GGG's radar for improvements.

you can't be right there are hundreds of posts by 3 people saying ggg will never change it and we shouldn't post in a feedback forum.

Seriously they need to let you actually fight the boss fights as many times as you want with diminishing loot returns (if any) and ALL ascendency points.

In WOW we do not mind wiping to a boss but blizzard knows making you clear the busy time boring trash more than once a night is bad for the game.

It still is a bad and unfun last boss fight but at least the busy work will be reduced.

Its designed to make people quit because your wasting their time intentionally. That really pisses people off.