SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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raics wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

This is because the traps in the last fight are boring and a waste of time too.

You're pulling my leg now, a fight is not boring but the same fight with an extra element you have to keep an eye on is boring? You wouldn't happen to be one of those people that claim a manual clutch makes driving boring?

It pretty much goes back to the point I was making 50 pages ago lol.
Stinking of bad faith, so much ...

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Turtledove wrote:

I could have sworn that at least one of the labyrinth thread trolls had said that would never happen? (Note: I consider there to only be three lab thread trolls. One of which rarely posts any longer. So don't think I'm dissing you, Xavathos. ;-)

You mean, you ctrl+f and looked for lines with "lab" and skipped everything else ?
How much are you lacking knowledge of this again ?
I am not in the beta, but I know that the waypoint is before entering the labyrinth ...

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Xavathos wrote:

All that's left is for you to put the pieces together and...

Big overestimation here imho.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

I agree. It's bizarre that that user has a 'record' of me. But if it keeps him happy, who am I to interfere?

My mother used to always talk about the "Heavenly Father" having a record of everything we do. It must take a huge army of record keepers to do that. I'm very pleased to learn that our Heavenly Father has someone assigned to that duty for the PoE Labyrinth threads.

P.S. Any guesses as to which religion always talks about Heavenly Father having a record of everything we do? Perhaps that's multiple religions? I don't really now.

P.P.S. Do you think that all of the hard copy records have been moved over to digital copies by now?

I'm sure one of these guys here know the answers to these questions. They feel they have all of the answers, after all. I mean, they claim to know better what people are thinking than the people themselves. Clairvoyant and all that ;)

Google has good clues for at least the first question.
https://www.google.com/search?q=heavenly+father+has+a+record+of+everything+we+do&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS723US723&oq=heavenly+father+has+a+record+of+everything+we+do&aqs=chrome..69i57.28408j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Haven't really kept up with the pages here for awhile, feel like I got my points across and its all I wanted to say but.... I just watched pohx video of the smaller lab runs for the normal,cruel,merc versions... well I didn't watch all the way through the merc one.

All I have to say is, its fairly disappointing. Might as well not even have a normal or cruel lab. There was barely any traps in them. Just a room or maybe a second one, then izaro. I was on the side of the lab being pretty bad, but for different reasons then most. I didn't expcet any big changes or anything with 3.0 but this is like... why? Why even have a lab at this point, or trials at this point?

Unless this is a response to how much ppl really dislike the lab and just did this as a band aid, idk. Here is me hoping for a future rework into something actually good with traps and monsters combined.

After Kripp's public disgust vs the lab reddit thread and twitch video

After Mathil's constant mockery of it in many videos one of which is this one (he uses the term shit very often for the lab fyi)

After projectPT direct questioning and criticism of it in the Q&A(4:20) with Chris where the latter tactfully ignored the question

Now comes Pohx with his newest videos(5:05-6:05) about it showing how really boring and alienating this content is.

And how many other videos and threads I'm missing who knows.
And GGG knows the issues with the lab, but what they choose to do? Ignore most player feedback and instead make tweaks that they think is the problem.

Like seriously guys, shortening the labs and removing mechanics from the Izaro fight? One room to reach the Izaro fights? Less trials? Adding more rewards for running it?(that's older but applies here). Gold keys in the same room as gold doors? And you white knights are OK with it? They toned down your favorite content, they diluted the experience and you don't say a word? (something chris specifically mentioned he wouldn't like) Are you actually fine with it? Hypocrisy too much?

What those changes actually do is make the whole experience more bearable by shortening it by A LOT, and making it easier for those who had problems navigating through the traps (they reduced the dmg they do) and with Izaro.

I for once welcome any change and "improvement" made to the lab, but i dont thing anyone ever asked to make lab EASIER, just fun or simply optional, less unfun content doesn't equal more fun experience, less damage and mechanics do not mean less alienating gameplay, shorter boring and now toned down "challenges" do not mean the content becomes more likeable, same structural rewarding keeps the journey unpleasant while Ithaka a dream, and it should be the other way around. Like pohx said "you cant put fun and lab in the same sentence".

Anyway, i cant but acknowledge that we with our feedback and suggestions that still keep making contributed to those changes (even if i personally don't actually agree with them 100%). GGG obviously somewhat addressed paragraph II of the OP by reducing the amount of alienating content and somewhat paragraph IV by making the traps do less damage (the truth though is that they still are ignoring character choices).

Maybe one day, just how it happened with SSF, GGG will listen to their community and implement actual changes and improvements that matter, or after a while when streamers keep on bashing on it they will see how detrimental this content and this kind of stance towards it is.

As a conclusion, i would like to thank every single one who supports changes and/or improvements to the lab, those new people who voice their displeasure with it and keep coming, those older ones who keep doing an excellent work at invalidating the WK's petty arguments (not that is hard since they don't have any, but it takes time, patience and commitment nevertheless) as well as those who keep coming with new ideas on how to improve this part of the game. As an honorable mention i would like to also thank all the GGG lovers that feel threatened and want to protect their princess like all good white knights do, thanks for your magical and otherworldly comments that provide hours and hours of entertainment and laughs, thanks for minimizing our effort to rebuttal your "arguments" by making laughable, controversial and contradictional ones (i cant remember who was the bright one that debunked his own argument in the same post some hundred pages ago), and for the immense help you provided at keeping this thread on the front page for almost two years, without you it would have been dead a while ago and as a result of this thanks for inviting new people to come and voice their dissatisfaction. Special mention for Turtledove for always being kind, pleasant and courteous as well as his tenacity and commitment to the cause, as well as gibbousmoon who though appears much less than others made huge contributions to this thread with his well made, logical, objective and elaborate posts (which are truly a pleasure to read).

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Regulator wrote:

And GGG knows the issues with the lab, but what they choose to do? Ignore most player feedback and instead make tweaks that they think is the problem.

Point completely missed there, thank you for your participation lol.
If you still don't understand GGG's stance ( even though they have said/"explained" it ) ....
Or you just won't accept it :]


And you seem to have no clue why SSF happened in the first place, how about you try to find some actual information or actual even try to understand where GGG is going, before throwing your silly rant next time ?

So, I guess what you're saying here Regulator is that rather than choosing any of the creative ideas in the OP or coming up with their own idea GGG just made the labyrinth so short that there's not much left (except in merciless and end game?)? That is a relatively low implementation cost approach. I guess that could possibly work? When 3.0 comes out maybe I'll give PoE another try?

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Like seriously guys, shortening the labs and removing mechanics from the Izaro fight? One room to reach the Izaro fights? Less trials? Adding more rewards for running it?(that's older but applies here). Gold keys in the same room as gold doors? And you white knights are OK with it? They toned down your favorite content, they diluted the experience and you don't say a word? (something chris specifically mentioned he wouldn't like) Are you actually fine with it? Hypocrisy too much?

They only slightly changed Merc and Uber lab AFAIK (you don't have to go to new instances for golden keys) so the lab experience didn't really change for people that like the janky difficulty.

WHo cares about the changes it's like someone complaining you took a dump on their door. To respond to it you scoop half off the door and leave.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

WHo cares about the changes it's like someone complaining you took a dump on their door. To respond to it you scoop half off the door and leave.

For the love of Dominus, Zalhan, stop writing analogies. The ancient Greeks are rolling in their graves.