SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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But, I DO miss a "KEEP LAB AS IT IS" thread :P

Well because adjustments can hopefully go a long way to solve some issues you guys might have, while still keeping the design and spirit of the lab in tact.


In terms of the adjusted lab, I REALLY don't like how the instance can have golden keys in the same area, not only does it actually take longer to get it in a lot of circumstances, but I don't fully understand the point of such a change, if there even is one.

Very few golden key setups prior to this change where out of the norm or didn't follow a certain setup, it seems like the largest benefit of having it in the same zone is some saved time on loading screen for those that aren't using an SSD.

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What is clear, is that they don't want to move the Ascendancy points away from the lab.

That has been clear since the introduction of the lab.

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Do we have all Izaro's mechanics from the "normal" lab in the beta still, btw ?

I'll admit I feel a bit spoiled playing on beta with the various changes they've made to mini map, performance, ect that i haven't felt a reason to play the lab too much in the current game, but I thought the last room in all difficulties had traps in the last room active. In the beta it seemed like the traps were disabled completely in normal, so overall doing that run is mostly "can I dps the boss and interact with the mechanics fine"

I can tell you cruel had charges, which is largely seen as a possible problematic encounter, but they may have slowed how quickly he gets charges in earlier difficulties of the lab.

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1. Widespread recognition in GGG that lab is broadly disliked / hated / avoided when possible

I mean GGG pretty much came out and said they don't care if you dislike the content, because you do it for the reward regardless.

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2. A realization in GGG that quite a few long term supporters who have loved the game are having their experience spoiled by a single part of the game, which is lab

And they are just honestly crybabies, because the lab is a very, very small fraction of what a character "needs" to do, that if they can't get over that hump and accept it, then they are just being entitled.

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3. A realization that lab is likely shortening the life span of POE

That isn't the case, considering the popularity of the game is higher then it has ever been since the introduction of the lab and its only increased, go ahead and pull out some number to back up your statement.

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If lab gets poor reviews during the platform release, then that would probably be a key motivator for change. GGG won't want their platform activities to be internally and externally viewed as a failure; if lab looks like a (partial) cause of problems, then fixing it would move further up the agenda. Another key motivator would be seeing a rise in the decay rate of players spending time in POE (drops in player count and/or time spent) after each new release of material, paired with anecdotal evidence that lab is a factor in falling retention rates.

I somewhat agree, if the lab isn't seen that well by a large number of console gamers it could have an effect on the PC realm, on the other hand it is a separate realm so if they feel they need to adjust the damage to be less on traps, less trap obstacles or whatever on xbox they could.

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Another key motivator to get an alternative for earning prestige class skills in place could be a sense within and outside GGG that, after revamping the entire game to cut down on repetition, it seems out of place for the most divisive content to be the content that players run the most.

Run the most? How long do you spend in an act at least 15 min, but most spend significantly longer. The lab takes 10 min tops in normal, 15 min in cruel and if your REALLY slow 20 min in merciless. I haven't gotten to uber in beta yet, because I'm missing one trial and trying to see how long it takes to find it.

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The steady drumbeat of "I dislike lab" and "I hate lab" posts, together with the number of people ending up in Turtle's thread, are the factors in this forum that can help to shift internal discussions in GGG. Those busy with trying to argue against such posts haven't really had any degree of success in slowing down that drumbeat and have, ironically, ensured that drum beats more loudly and more often by keeping threads like this on or near the front page.

Most of which are effectively shitpost, because they don't actually contain feedback, but rather just cry about something they don't want to do. I don't think GGG puts much thought into feedback post that don't identify the problem and specially state why its a problem for them. Most people only do the first part when discussing the lab, not the later. Hell the OP of this post is suppose to suggest alternatives, based on that fact, but he has abandoned almost all of his original intention, mostly because he probably knows GGG isn't going to do anything but tweaks and adjustments, not remove the lab, not remove AC from lab and not remove traps from lab.

The OP of this thread has feedback and many suggestions that Regulator has collected and been refining over the past year based on feedback and suggestions primarily from this thread. While I may prefer some suggestions over others, in my view any would basically lay to rest the "labyrinth controversy". Anyone suggesting that when someone comes into this thread and expresses their dislike of labyrinth without referencing the OP or giving detail of their dislike or thoughts on potential suggestions would confuse GGG and be summarily dismissed by GGG would seem to be saying that they think that GGG is completely stupid.

600?






Nope!

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Those busy with trying to argue against such posts haven't really had any degree of success in slowing down that drumbeat and have, ironically, ensured that drum beats more loudly and more often by keeping threads like this on or near the front page.

Indeed. It is ironically just.

Especially given that the posts of the most persistent bumpers consist of, to use goetzjam's language, "...shitpost, because they don't actually contain feedback, but rather just cry about something..."

There are one or two lab fans (or at least non-lab haters) in this thread who really do make good contributions to the discussion, but they are quickly drowned out by the posters described above.

I think the most effective use of this thread is to suggest tweaks to the existing hated content which are likely to please both camps. Even fans of the lab (or fans of any content in this game, for that matter) are willing to accept that improvements can be made.

How can we preserve the content (and its spirit) while making it less widely and/or deeply loathed?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Those busy with trying to argue against such posts haven't really had any degree of success in slowing down that drumbeat and have, ironically, ensured that drum beats more loudly and more often by keeping threads like this on or near the front page.

Indeed. It is ironically just.

Especially given that the posts of the most persistent bumpers consist of, to use goetzjam's language, "...shitpost, because they don't actually contain feedback, but rather just cry about something..."

There are one or two lab fans (or at least non-lab haters) in this thread who really do make good contributions to the discussion, but they are quickly drowned out by the posters described above.


How can we preserve the content (and its spirit) while making it less widely and/or deeply loathed?

Thats not true. What the statement he is trying to make is for anyone to defend the lab or the process of earning the points to not respond at all, so you want to skew the results to GGG and the community by making a collection of nothing but negative responses regarding the lab.

Is there a consequence that perhaps a few more people might reply to this thread to dislike the lab, that is entirely possible, but its far better then just letting one side of the argument have all of the responses.


I mean your very own person phrazzz just posted 600? Nope

[Removed by Support]

600 nope isn't a fucking contribution to the discussion it serves literally no purpose, but to bump the thread in the most uninteresting way possible, at least have some creativity.

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I think the most effective use of this thread is to suggest tweaks to the existing hated content which are likely to please both camps. Even fans of the lab (or fans of any content in this game, for that matter) are willing to accept that improvements can be made.

I agree with you. Hell I wouldn't mind if this thread would focus on a few things, instead like I said WAY long ago its just a compiled list of anything that isn't the status quo, even if the ideas are dumb or never going to be implemented.


I fully support improvements and discussion regarding the topic, I want to see the lab be more successful, not dismissed as many of you guys would like it to be. Which is why I go back to why anyone would post here or at all with "lab sucks"

That doesn't do shit but get your name added to a list that doens't have any bearing on anything really. If the list was 400 users that posted what they specifically didnt like about the lab, their experiences and what solution if any that would support listed, it would be worth far more then the 900 we have now.

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How can we preserve the content (and its spirit) while making it less widely and/or deeply loathed?

A fucking man dude

Amen to that, goetzjam. And that says something, because I'm not even religious.

Sorry, Dominus.

yea screw people's opinions if they are not PRO GGG they have no purpose in this feedback forum.

Err Wait
I am confused.

PS. You might not like the discussion but you're still part of it, which means you're criticizing the thing you are part of.

Its pretty clear no one but us few people are reading and most people aren't taking it super serious just having an entertaining discussion.

If you hate something that's not changing anything , why are you still here.

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goetzjam wrote:

Which is why I go back to why anyone would post here or at all with "lab sucks"

The Lab itself is not a problem.
The problem is AP gated behind the Lab.
In OP there is much constructive feedback and many reasonable arguments, not only "lab sucks" message.

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Nishrek wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Which is why I go back to why anyone would post here or at all with "lab sucks"

The Lab itself is not a problem.
The problem is AP gated behind the Lab.
In OP there is much constructive feedback and many reasonable arguments, not only "lab sucks" message.

"gated"

You mean its how you earn the points. People use the word gated so negatively, even if it is applicable in this case the challenge for getting the points is this piece of content, like any game has various challenges you may or many not like, but you do for the reward anyway.


OP does have some stuff, its its just a massive collection of idea, with no real focus, its 100% just different from status quo, he doesn't care to influence ideas by the feedback others have given.


Let me point out what I mean by posting lab sucks, what I mean is just posting that. IF you want to post lab sucks, i dont enjoy the traps or I disconnect to frequently or I don't understand the mechanics, the boss is too difficult, anything more then just part 1 of the 3 parts I think feedback should have, then by all means post. But just posting 2 words and nothing else of value does nothing IMO


From what I can tell you've never even done the uber lab. so.....

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yea screw people's opinions if they are not PRO GGG they have no purpose in this feedback forum.

No where did I say that. Screw people that just post part 1 of the 3 parts of giving useful feedback though, because it just clutters the whole thing with low effort post that is not useful.

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If you hate something that's not changing anything , why are you still here.

Holy shit this is the best line to use against yourself and anyone that hates the lab.

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Nishrek wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Which is why I go back to why anyone would post here or at all with "lab sucks"

The Lab itself is not a problem.
The problem is AP gated behind the Lab.
In OP there is much constructive feedback and many reasonable arguments, not only "lab sucks" message.

Your right , and wrong. More right than wrong ill admit.

1) A large Group of people hate the Lab content.
2) You Need the Asc. points to play the game at the end game level.

Those 2 things are facts.
No amount of "L2P" or "it won't change" or "GGG knows better than your worthless soul" will change that.

Ideally in MY OPINION, people would like a challenging fight without the things that make the lab suck balls.

The stupid "your time is worthless" busy crap ie everything but the last fight needs to go.

Even this would make it from teribad to just bad.

This is because the traps in the last fight are boring and a waste of time too. A significant amount of people hate them and would not play even if they removed all the "fuck your time" stuff because this isn't at it's heart a platform game it's the true successor to D2.

They know this too because they added the pay another PC to just win the fight mechanic. We all know if it was a real challenge it would be solo self found only.

So let's not pretend this is a skill discussion. You have no clue who cheesed it and didn't. For all you can prove 5% of the population is actually doing it and not paying someone to do it