SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

I used to really like taking on MSLEs and LEBs in D2 in 1.09, back when they could be lethal. They were always a fun challenge, especially when playing naked characters.

For example, normal difficulty Rakanishu was always a fun fight for such builds because to punch him into submission while naked took careful attention to positioning. I remember teaching others how to do that when I was tutoring others about how to play D2 naked.

I don't see lab as presenting the same kind of challenge. At all. And it certainly isn't as enjoyable as fighting D2 MSLEs and LEBs while naked.

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torturo wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Well if that's the trend and it's going to deepen, for me it means I'm out when it escalates.

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Fruz wrote:

But the first iterations of the game already were using such mechanics, where positioning matters :
- Vaaal smash
- Lunaris Piety, where one needed to hide behind the pillars, or just move from the lightning storm
- Brutus smash

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Fruz wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

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I think Catarina's missions were also tweaked a bit. I don't think people were complaining much about the other missions and they don't really stand out from the usual arpg fare much. My point was that unacceptable may become acceptable if you make it easy enough and the lab isn't trivial to the point where its difficulty can't factor in the complaint even if you don't explicitly say so.

I see. Well you should know that some master missions are hard to complete in high lvl maps and are anything but piss-easy. I don't see what you described as difficulty.

I honestly almost always do masters mission ( nto vagan if it needs to change area tho ), even in red maps and .... I haven't noticed anything really difficult, in any of those, I don't think that I have ever dropped below 50% HP in haku missions and Im not hard rushing either.
If anything, missions where you change area are easier because they are not moded.

And they did make the guards harder to kill, which was good imho.

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torturo wrote:

Fruz, do you make the difference between just taking a step aside of a slow telegraphed attack, and the desperate search for the proper pixel, in a fraction of a second?

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Pyrokar wrote:

And yea you can remove your damage supports or lure the guards or whatever, but does that add any difficulty?

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Xavathos wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

Jesus freakin' Christ... Are you serious?

Show me ONE video - of the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD - beating every lab content in Path of Exile in under ten minutes. That's 14(?) trials and 4 labs. I already told you that i can beat MERCILESS lab in about 6 minutes. But that is beside the point. I was talking about the whole content being a big part of the game. Not ONE SINGLE branch of the lab themed content.

You DO know that the lab (as a whole content) takes longer than 10 minutes. Yet you keep going on and on and on. Either pay attention to what is being debated, or find somewhere else to be. If you're trolling, congratulation - you hooked me. If not, you are MILES off the point here.

Thanks. I'm done with you.

Good content is like a fine wine. I don't rush thru, but if I die I am not screwed over. The Lab rewards you to ignore the adds and take some damage from traps and just get it over with to get to the only hard part, the last fight. where you have to fight a decent boss but for some bad design reason you have traps there too.

And why the fuck if you die do I have to start over. I proved I can get thru your retarded traps. Let me fight the damn boss till I get it. If the traps are a death tax, just let me read a book for 20 minutes or something more interesting, than waste my time on easy stupid boring retarded lack of imagination zzzzzzz traps.

You contradict yourself once again. You say it's easy and then you say you die and complain about it. So maybe it's not so easy for you after all and that's the issue?

It takes skill, it's fair and it's not a dice roll. I have no problems with traps as they are.

I mean I don't like saying something similar to "git gud" but sometimes that's actually correct...

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

So basically the Lab is nothing more than a "bad player filtering machine", that's why GGG introduced it, to distinguish the bad from the good players, aren't all your (plural) arguments boil down to this conclusion? Bad strategy for a company that, besides fulfilling their vision, they basically want to make a profit, wouldn't you say?

Personally i'm not that good bringing analogies from RL, but in general when i don't like something (whatever that is in RL), i do not wish to waste a single moment on it. Because then it would seem like an eternity. Familiar expression is it not? Associating a tiny amount of time with eternity.

This generic perception can be specified with countless examples from RL, from a type of conversation or movie to a video game like PoE.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

I see you're the super player. Always do Lab and all trials in 10 minutes per season and NEVER die on last fight on any tune no matter the spec ever.

Clearly you're the most interesting man in the world like that commercial.

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raics wrote:

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torturo wrote:

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raics wrote:

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The precise hand-to-eye coordination isn't by any means related to (a)RPGs and never was an important factor, wile it's the one and only requirement in the lab. People play aRPGs because they want to play aRPGs with their set of rules. But not platformers, nor bullet hell games. Those who want to play platformers play platformers and feel successful if they can prove they got faster reactions and better coodination than the other competitors. Because that's the skill in this genre.
People who like aRPGs are not here to compare their central and periferal nervous systems, along with the superiority of their small brain activity to the rest, and call this "SKILL".

What's so damn hard to get? The "challenge" lab provides is related to game genres which got nothing with what's considered "skill" in aRPGs. LAB IS A FUCKING FOREIGN OBJECT TO THIS GAME. It requires completely different set of "skills" - mostly biological and biochemical "advantages", which people use to practice and take joy of, but in completely different game genres.

Have you seen any of the major bosses developed in last year or more? It's fairly clear that devs are designing the game with exactly the 'different set of skills that has no place in an arpg' in mind.

I get where you're coming from, though, I prefer the way old PoE did some things, the oldschool way, but it hasn't been that game for a long time. The 'new' PoE means lab and bullet hell bosses.

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Pyrokar wrote:

And yea you can remove your damage supports or lure the guards or whatever, but does that add any difficulty? It's just a chore that anyone can do. Again, i don't see those as difficult and it amazes me that you associate these things with difficulty.

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Fruz wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

And yea you can remove your damage supports or lure the guards or whatever, but does that add any difficulty?

It is a an element of difficulty, yes, it definitely is, without the shadow of a doubt.
And it is a an element of immersion also, having something consistent with the characer "Vorici", something that makes sense ( Although have the guard flee once the exile dies would have made much more sense ), and some people do care about such things.

I wasn't that easy to be able to get only the exiles and no guard, in some situations.
That implies difficulty.

And I was not speaking only about t11 of course.

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raics wrote:

And swapping a few gear pieces or gems around or checking the wiki for game mechanics is difficult? If we go like that nothing at all is difficult in PoE, it's an easy game. Who knows, maybe it is, a veritable ruby on rails.