SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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raics wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It's not a zero-sum game, raics. A game like PoE (and many, if not most, other games) is not a collection of disparate elements. The Labyrinth is not a fly in the soup so much as... too much salt. You can't just "eat around it" like so many in these threads advocate.

Considering the kind of a game this is, sure, you can't.

However, it isn't all that pervasive so we can't really call it a soup, more of a thick stew with a section where someone splashed in a condiment you don't like. You can avoid the highly contaminated section to an extent though you will most likely take a few mouthfulls whether you want it or not but the amount of flavor it leaks into the remaining of the stew shouldn't be enough to spoil the whole thing. Sure, IF you've been truly enjoying the soup previously, not already sitting on the fence about the whole thing or even looking for an excuse to stop eating.

Maybe they should get Gordon Ramsay to join in on this thread.

"The Lab soup is bland, tasteless, no passion, bad use of flavours together, it makes no sense. Also there's roaches under the floor in the boss room and the decoration is completely out of this world. Never had a worse bowl of soup. Original GGG? Oh please. Hideous. Bland. Disgusting. Would not feed to my dog."

It would give this thread entertainment value at least.

dup

Blizzard tried scaling damage based on your gear level, guess what the NEXT DAY they apologised and pulled it. Apparently the majority of the base does not like getting weaker (or staying the same) as they progress.

And this was just yard trash not progression content.

Post here
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6494-Mobs-Scaling-With-Item-Level-Sacrifice-Known-Issues-Season-3-Live-Blue-Posts

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

All humans fart

And all games have something you don't like, a perfect one doesn't exist. If the good outweighs the bad you like the game and hate it if it's the other way around. The only difference with evolving games like PoE is it doesn't have all the moving parts from the get go so it's harder to make up your mind about it and it may change significantly over the development course.

It's not a zero-sum game, raics. A game like PoE (and many, if not most, other games) is not a collection of disparate elements. The Labyrinth is not a fly in the soup so much as... too much salt. You can't just "eat around it" like so many in these threads advocate.

The entire remainder of the game is, directly or indirectly, balanced around the existence of Ascendancy points, enchantments, and the additional ease of acquiring currency in the Labyrinth. This impacts GGG's decisions regarding the degree of defensive ability (hp pool, for example) a monster has and how hard monsters hit. These are areas which have indeed been balanced since the release of Ascendancy. It also impacts GGG's decisions on loot tables: To my knowledge, they have not downwardly adjusted currency drops since the release of the Labyrinth, but they arguably should, since an influx of currency from any source affects the economy via inflation. And, again, you are affected by that inflation whether you run the Labyrinth for profit or not.

In short, whether you are a fan of this content or not, we should all be able to agree that its existence impacts everyone. Those who are unwilling or unable to engage the content because it is not fun to play (and fixing THIS problem is where I'd like to see more discussion) do lose out.

Significantly, those who enjoy the content gain additionally from it in direct proportion to the number of people who don't, due both to the existence of carries and to economic competition. This creates conflicts of interest which (as we see in most threads on this subject) lead to large amounts of venom. That too should not be ignored. Should I prefer that the game be less enjoyable to a large swathe of players because that unenjoyability leads to direct and indirect profit for me? Without question, there are posters who would answer that question with a resounding "Yes." For those players, any changes to the Labyrinth to make it more engaging/challenging/fun will be anathema.

I won't depute that the lab brings out too much salt, but something like trade topics likely bring out more. In terms of your comparison of salt here in the soup, it really isn't a good comparison because for all intents and purposes the lab as a piece of content is something you do once per difficulty, per character. So its similar in terms of leveling, but isn't as important as something like mapping, at least not for the people that play this game in an endgame fashion for a significant amount of time.

A better way to compare is that the lab is like a piece of a meal and a piece you might not like, but in order to better savor the ending you need to eat it or you won't get the dessert. For some people it taste fine, for others its a bit lucklaster, but they really enjoy eating dessert and for others they will do anything it takes to ensure that they don't have to eat it at all, lets call them vegetarians and they don't eat meat. No matter what GGG would do to make improvements to the lab, in terms of adding more depth, making the trap have more options to avoid or disable or having the boss fight be more difficult (despite the fact that people complain about the lab being difficult and too easy at the same time, lol), the vegetarians won't care about those changes, because they simply don't want to eat the meat, they just want to go strait to the dessert.

You can't make a statement like the entire game is balanced directly or indirectly around AC points. The fact of the matter is only content and changes done post AC points release can even be considered with AC points in mind. Which means the entirety of the leveling process is made with people not having AC points. That isn't to say getting AC points during leveling is pointless, it isn't, but its been proven time and again as not necessary to progress thru the storyline content (aka up to act 4 merc)

Then you must look at the changes that have been made with AC possibly in mind, there really hasn't been too many, stuff like mid level maps having increased life and damage is something, but power creep outside of AC points can be considered just as much, stuff like double dipping, response to more powerful unique items, easier access to items from div cards, diviners boxes, buffed drop rates, ect all play a part in balance and many more aspects.

Then you look at "new" stuff like guardians and shaper. If anything was made with AC classes in mind its these fights, but in all actuality these fights are but a drop in the bucket of the content that is played. If AC points are dessert, then shaper is like a high class wine, very few people will even be able to try it.


As far as I am aware GGG has done nothing to limit or decrease the amount of HP you as a player can have. The life nodes are the same values, hell easier pathing as just made to ranger life areas and stuff like that. About the only change that was made was energy from within was nerfed, but thats a general balance change, not an AC specific change.


In terms of adjusting currency drops, they've essentially done the opposite, they've not only increased players power, but how easy it is to craft gear, accumulate currency, acquire items (because they are more common), ect. In terms of the labs economy stuff, overall its much less important and has a much lessor impact then many of the other changes they have done outside of the lab. Like you know diviners boxes, increased drop rates of uniques, ect. GGG has stated that they have plans to make the uber lab longer, this is likely due to the fact that the rewards are a bit too much for the current state of the game.


Of course it impacts everyone, just like most changes that are made into the game. However, it has largely been skewed in terms of how "bad" it is because of the vegetarians and the "idealist". Everyone wants to be a game designer apparently on these forums, instead of focusing on just dropping the feedback and leaving the ball in GGG's court. Does it sometimes help to offer solutions to a problem you think exists, maybe a bit but there is a difference in stating something and giving feedback and effectively "shitposting"

That isn't to say some of my post have been less then useful, but there typically is a clear difference in my post and that of the people that do nothing but shitpost. If you post only 1 line response or only in response to the people that share your opinion then you are no better then the 1 line useless low effort responses that should be removed from this forum.


So in order to spark a discussion on what improvements or changed need to be made, we need to be able to easily identify who is going to be a contributing member of the discussion and who is effectively only going to shit post because they don't like meat. I tried back on like page 40 or something to get OP to focus on one or two good things that might happen in terms of AC points, the fact of the matter is this "ideal world" where the lab is an actual maze, without the ability to effectively carry someone and without really the racing aspect, is not a lab that is the vision of the GGG team, if it were, then they would have done it.

So lets ask the question, what can be done, that is going to be possible in 3.0, if the answer is 3.0 already has too many things slated to be addressed, then shouldn't it be something else?

Just DC'ed at the end of lab literally right before I could click the god damn dias for my two skill points. Wtf is the point of this place? Do I really need to suffer through this pointless area for all of my characters? LITERALLY ALL OF THEM? Can't it just be like the stupid trials where it's account wide once you're done and you can unlock the points for free after you've completed it once on all your toons?

You could make the points level gated, so after you've completed the first lab every toon over level 30 gets the first set, then 45, then 55, then 65. Done.

Or hell, you could even just level our level 1 toons have all the damn points so leveling doesn't take 12 hours it takes 10. I wouldn't mind having an overtuned level 1.

DC'ing in the lab makes me want to kick puppies. I would literally like this game more if I never had to do that content ever again. I'm pretty sure over half of the community feels the same. Don't make the lab shorter in the Oriath expansion, GET RID OF IT! Or at least just make that shit hole a one time deal, or even better make it completely optional!

There are almost 500 pages of people in relative agreement on this thread. Wtf is going on?

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ClickerPro wrote:

Just DC'ed at the end of lab literally right before I could click the god damn dias for my two skill points. Wtf is the point of this place? Do I really need to suffer through this pointless area for all of my characters? LITERALLY ALL OF THEM? Can't it just be like the stupid trials where it's account wide once you're done and you can unlock the points for free after you've completed it once on all your toons?

You could make the points level gated, so after you've completed the first lab every toon over level 30 gets the first set, then 45, then 55, then 65. Done.

Or hell, you could even just level our level 1 toons have all the damn points so leveling doesn't take 12 hours it takes 10. I wouldn't mind having an overtuned level 1.

DC'ing in the lab makes me want to kick puppies. I would literally like this game more if I never had to do that content ever again. I'm pretty sure over half of the community feels the same. Don't make the lab shorter in the Oriath expansion, GET RID OF IT! Or at least just make that shit hole a one time deal, or even better make it completely optional!

There are almost 500 pages of people in relative agreement on this thread. Wtf is going on?

ClickerPro, thank you for voicing your opinion on the shit hole labyrinth. I've added you to the list of people voicing a similar opinion at 773 account names. As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 320 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 770 posters in support

Here's ClickerPro's summary profile.
Guild:
5th Element

Joined:
Jan 17, 2013

Last Visited:
May 9, 2017

Total Forum Posts:
35 (0.02 posts per day)

Hydra Supporter
Legacy Supporter

ClickerPro is a wonderful person that may be a professional clicker. He/she started playing PoE longer ago than most people which proves that he/she is either smarter or luckier than most people. Approximately half of his/her posts to the forum have occurred before and the other half occurred after the release of the shit hole labyrinth. I also assert that ClickerPro when compared to people on this forum that attack people that dislike the labyrinth passes gas less often by 10% on average.

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goetzjam wrote:

No matter what GGG would do to make improvements to the lab, in terms of adding more depth, making the trap have more options to avoid or disable or having the boss fight be more difficult (despite the fact that people complain about the lab being difficult and too easy at the same time, lol), the vegetarians won't care about those changes, because they simply don't want to eat the meat, they just want to go strait to the dessert.

I don't accept that this statement is true. There was plenty of enthusiasm for the Labyrinth before people learned how bad the implementation was going to be. Now, you can argue that fixing a bad implementation is not nearly as good as getting it right the first time, for fixes will not win back 100% of the goodwill that was lost, and you'd be right. But I do think there are plenty of hardcore PoE fans who would be willing to reevaluate their opinion of the Labyrinth if, you know, some of its problems were actually fixed.

I expanded on these thoughts and put them into a new thread, so that it wouldn't get lost in all the trash that gets posted in this one.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897324

I invite you to go poke holes in my suggestion and/or propose modifications to it to make it better. Since you enjoy the Labyrinth, you probably can point out angles that I have missed.

Specifically, what do you enjoy most about the Labyrinth? And to what extent would my suggestion interfere with those aspects of your enjoyment? (Other Lab fans should feel free to chime in as well.)

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Turtledove wrote:

ClickerPro is a wonderful person that may be a professional clicker. He/she started playing PoE longer ago than most people which proves that he/she is either smarter or luckier than most people. Approximately half of his/her posts to the forum have occurred before and the other half occurred after the release of the shit hole labyrinth. I also assert that ClickerPro when compared to people on this forum that attack people that dislike the labyrinth passes gas less often by 10% on average.

This seems plausible. But talking on a scientific level: Do you think that there is any correlation between passing gass less often and not having a taste for eating shit, or playing shit content like the labyrinth?

lol :D

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Pyrokar wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

ClickerPro is a wonderful person that may be a professional clicker. He/she started playing PoE longer ago than most people which proves that he/she is either smarter or luckier than most people. Approximately half of his/her posts to the forum have occurred before and the other half occurred after the release of the shit hole labyrinth. I also assert that ClickerPro when compared to people on this forum that attack people that dislike the labyrinth passes gas less often by 10% on average.

This seems plausible. But talking on a scientific level: Do you think that there is any correlation between passing gass less often and not having a taste for eating shit, or playing shit content like the labyrinth?

lol :D

Well anger leads to hate, hate leads to an unbalanced chi, an unbalanced chi leads to diarrhea,diarrhea leads to gas. It also leads to a restricted diet which does not include shit.

so ..................

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Pyrokar wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

ClickerPro is a wonderful person that may be a professional clicker. He/she started playing PoE longer ago than most people which proves that he/she is either smarter or luckier than most people. Approximately half of his/her posts to the forum have occurred before and the other half occurred after the release of the shit hole labyrinth. I also assert that ClickerPro when compared to people on this forum that attack people that dislike the labyrinth passes gas less often by 10% on average.

This seems plausible. But talking on a scientific level: Do you think that there is any correlation between passing gass less often and not having a taste for eating shit, or playing shit content like the labyrinth?

lol :D

Talking scientifically of course, I'd theorize that eating shit would primarily lead to an increased unpleasant odor rating to the flatulence rather than increased volume or frequency.