SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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SunL4D2 wrote:

I hate this GGG's point of view.

Ascendancy points are not some kind of luxury. They are down to earth routine basic part of the game. We take them for granted and GGG should be less conservative about that.

I would be happy if they get rid of 3 Labs and leave Uber Lab as it is.

They are expansion level of content and power, thats like giving leveled masters for free......except much more powerful.

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raics wrote:

And all games have something you don't like, a perfect one doesn't exist. ...

Actually PoE prior to the release of Labyrinth was as close to perfect as it gets, at least for me.

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Turtledove wrote:

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raics wrote:

And all games have something you don't like, a perfect one doesn't exist. ...

Actually PoE prior to the release of Labyrinth was as close to perfect as it gets, at least for me.

Yeah, that happens a fair bit, we were in love with an unfinished product. I'm sure a lot of us here have some game that was better 'before they tacked on this and that onto it' or a fast food chain that was better before they started putting mayo in their burgers, I mean, that's why there are still vanilla WoW servers around, right?

The right and proper thing to do is to open their book of impressions and write "I don't like mayo in my burgers which is why I switched over to Joe's", maybe follow it up with a negative review on their website and a few social networks if you were really offended by it, why not. What you're doing here is spending an hour or two every day in front of their door with a sign 'out with the mayo, in with the salsa' :)

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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raics wrote:

And all games have something you don't like, a perfect one doesn't exist. ...

Actually PoE prior to the release of Labyrinth was as close to perfect as it gets, at least for me.

Yeah, that happens a fair bit, we were in love with an unfinished product. I'm sure a lot of us here have some game that was better 'before they tacked on this and that onto it' or a fast food chain that was better before they started putting mayo in their burgers, I mean, that's why there are still vanilla WoW servers around, right?

The right and proper thing to do is to open their book of impressions and write "I don't like mayo in my burgers which is why I switched over to Joe's", maybe follow it up with a negative review on their website and a few social networks if you were really offended by it, why not. What you're doing here is spending an hour or two every day in front of their door with a sign 'out with the mayo, in with the salsa' :)

Its actually probably worst then that. At this point at least 1\2 dozen people posting to this thread, if not more could not post anything at all, I'm sure at this point GGG doesnt give 2 shits about my 250th post on the topic or turles 1k post on it, it simply does nothing but waste support time, dev time (if and thats a big if they still read this thread...

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goetzjam wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Actually PoE prior to the release of Labyrinth was as close to perfect as it gets, at least for me.

Yeah, that happens a fair bit, we were in love with an unfinished product. I'm sure a lot of us here have some game that was better 'before they tacked on this and that onto it' or a fast food chain that was better before they started putting mayo in their burgers, I mean, that's why there are still vanilla WoW servers around, right?

The right and proper thing to do is to open their book of impressions and write "I don't like mayo in my burgers which is why I switched over to Joe's", maybe follow it up with a negative review on their website and a few social networks if you were really offended by it, why not. What you're doing here is spending an hour or two every day in front of their door with a sign 'out with the mayo, in with the salsa' :)

Its actually probably worst then that. At this point at least 1\2 dozen people posting to this thread, if not more could not post anything at all, I'm sure at this point GGG doesnt give 2 shits about my 250th post on the topic or turles 1k post on it, it simply does nothing but waste support time, dev time (if and thats a big if they still read this thread...

I'd be extremely surprised if they did. If anything I hope they don't. Some of my worst posts are in here, just because these Lab haters really get under my skin with their assumptions and baseless nonsense. It's like trying to talk to a bunch of religious fanatics, throw all reason out of the window except for their twisted view of reality and then continue to push it upon others and shun those who have the audacity to disagree. Bunch of trolls, we are! Scum of the earth! That said though, I'm quite ashamed about some of the things I've felt like saying or actually said here.

I guess if you value your sanity and ability to tell reality from fiction, you should stay clear of this thread and those who started it. There's just no way to have a decent conversation with some people. But the joke's on you, haters, because the Lab is here to stay, and more power to GGG for sticking to their vision of Wraeclast.

Oh no we are wasting their time by posting in a forum plagued by "Git Good" , "GGG your the Best", "I think a mechanic is broke because my build sucks".
What will they ever do. Will the game survive with this thread? Are we bankrupting the company?

Things that keep apparently GGG lovers up at night!

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Oh no we are wasting their time by posting in a forum plagued by "Git Good" , "GGG your the Best", "I think a mechanic is broke because my build sucks".
What will they ever do. Will the game survive with this thread? Are we bankrupting the company?

Things that keep apparently GGG lovers up at night!

lol some users on here are so worried :)

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raics wrote:

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Zaludoz wrote:

All humans fart

And all games have something you don't like, a perfect one doesn't exist. If the good outweighs the bad you like the game and hate it if it's the other way around. The only difference with evolving games like PoE is it doesn't have all the moving parts from the get go so it's harder to make up your mind about it and it may change significantly over the development course.

It's not a zero-sum game, raics. A game like PoE (and many, if not most, other games) is not a collection of disparate elements. The Labyrinth is not a fly in the soup so much as... too much salt. You can't just "eat around it" like so many in these threads advocate.

The entire remainder of the game is, directly or indirectly, balanced around the existence of Ascendancy points, enchantments, and the additional ease of acquiring currency in the Labyrinth. This impacts GGG's decisions regarding the degree of defensive ability (hp pool, for example) a monster has and how hard monsters hit. These are areas which have indeed been balanced since the release of Ascendancy. It also impacts GGG's decisions on loot tables: To my knowledge, they have not downwardly adjusted currency drops since the release of the Labyrinth, but they arguably should, since an influx of currency from any source affects the economy via inflation. And, again, you are affected by that inflation whether you run the Labyrinth for profit or not.

In short, whether you are a fan of this content or not, we should all be able to agree that its existence impacts everyone. Those who are unwilling or unable to engage the content because it is not fun to play (and fixing THIS problem is where I'd like to see more discussion) do lose out.

Significantly, those who enjoy the content gain additionally from it in direct proportion to the number of people who don't, due both to the existence of carries and to economic competition. This creates conflicts of interest which (as we see in most threads on this subject) lead to large amounts of venom. That too should not be ignored. Should I prefer that the game be less enjoyable to a large swathe of players because that unenjoyability leads to direct and indirect profit for me? Without question, there are posters who would answer that question with a resounding "Yes." For those players, any changes to the Labyrinth to make it more engaging/challenging/fun will be anathema.

Also,

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Xavathos wrote:

I'd be extremely surprised if they did. If anything I hope they don't. Some of my worst posts are in here, just because these Lab haters really get under my skin with their assumptions and baseless nonsense. It's like trying to talk to a bunch of religious fanatics, throw all reason out of the window except for their twisted view of reality and then continue to push it upon others and shun those who have the audacity to disagree. Bunch of trolls, we are! Scum of the earth! That said though, I'm quite ashamed about some of the things I've felt like saying or actually said here.

I guess if you value your sanity and ability to tell reality from fiction, you should stay clear of this thread and those who started it. There's just no way to have a decent conversation with some people. But the joke's on you, haters, because the Lab is here to stay, and more power to GGG for sticking to their vision of Wraeclast.

The problem I have with this, is some people post ideas for improving the game. But are labled as just hating on something. This thread has probably run its course but there have been many threads that have brought up great ideas on a way better version of the current lab. But so many people just bum rush those threads and just attack them.

I am one of those people that dislike the lab. For me its just boring, and doesn't really lend itself to the core mechanics of this game. The enchant system leaves much to be desired. Obviously I do it with no problem, I get the AC points and then I am out. Izaro is the only thing great about the lab. Needed more of that in the lab. This is my opinion, and I like to voice it from time to time. This doesn't mean I am a hater for it. I just hate to see potential wasted when there is room for improvement.

Obviously, if any big lab change were to happen, it wouldn't be to way down the road.. probably a year or so. GGG are working on many other things atm, they would have no time for big lab changes. We'll see down the road, or we'll see when xbox players start rolling into the lab. Kind of curious how controllers are going to play out in there.

Bottom line is.. we discuss the lab because want to improve the game, not because we are just hating on it.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It's not a zero-sum game, raics. A game like PoE (and many, if not most, other games) is not a collection of disparate elements. The Labyrinth is not a fly in the soup so much as... too much salt. You can't just "eat around it" like so many in these threads advocate.

Considering the kind of a game this is, sure, you can't.

However, it isn't all that pervasive so we can't really call it a soup, more of a thick stew with a section where someone splashed in a condiment you don't like. You can avoid the highly contaminated section to an extent though you will most likely take a few mouthfulls whether you want it or not but the amount of flavor it leaks into the remaining of the stew shouldn't be enough to spoil the whole thing. Sure, IF you've been truly enjoying the soup previously, not already sitting on the fence about the whole thing or even looking for an excuse to stop eating.