SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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UltimateForm wrote:

Uhm...your point being...? Sorry if I didn't get the joke

EDIT: sorry if you were serious, you just sounded a bit sarcastic in my head

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Turtledove wrote:

In anticipation of a poorly informed person taking issue with UltimateForm's 40 minute estimate, take note that the median for normal Labyrinth ladder right now is over 31 minutes.

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goetzjam wrote:

For anyone to complain that it takes over 15-20 min to do it are clearly people that are too ignorant to even inform themselves of the daily path for that difficulty.

The game cannot and will not be designed or changed by outliners and people that are too ignorant to search for information to help them. The normal lab likely has longer times because its the first appearance of the lab for the players of the game, some people go in without any information or experience, leading them to run into various dead ends and trying to access all of the side zones.

In terms of that crash, its at the loading screen where he spam clicked the door, its a common issue that I thought had been addressed, but its not an issue with the lab itself, but merely a bug, like any other that needs to be fixed.

In terms of your list, its gaining what 2-3 people a week, that isn't anywhere close to being enough to make an impact, like I said before most of the people complaining would have far less to complain about if they cared to inform themselves at all, instead of endlessly wondering around or not understanding what mechanics of izaro can 1 shot and what cannot.

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e1337donkey wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

For anyone to complain that it takes over 15-20 min to do it are clearly people that are too ignorant to even inform themselves of the daily path for that difficulty.

The game cannot and will not be designed or changed by outliners and people that are too ignorant to search for information to help them. The normal lab likely has longer times because its the first appearance of the lab for the players of the game, some people go in without any information or experience, leading them to run into various dead ends and trying to access all of the side zones.

In terms of that crash, its at the loading screen where he spam clicked the door, its a common issue that I thought had been addressed, but its not an issue with the lab itself, but merely a bug, like any other that needs to be fixed.

In terms of your list, its gaining what 2-3 people a week, that isn't anywhere close to being enough to make an impact, like I said before most of the people complaining would have far less to complain about if they cared to inform themselves at all, instead of endlessly wondering around or not understanding what mechanics of izaro can 1 shot and what cannot.

The expectation that players need to read a book to play PoE is one of the biggest issues with this game. This could be one of the worst games when it comes to informing players on how to play its own game. There is no way you are going to know that someone created a website program to track the layout of the lab, outside of GGG mind you.

And in terms of list gaining people is irrelevant. Lab threads keep popping up, and people keep talking about it. People keep posting on them as well, keep them going. So it always right in your face, as one of the top things you see in the forums.

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e1337donkey wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

For anyone to complain that it takes over 15-20 min to do it are clearly people that are too ignorant to even inform themselves of the daily path for that difficulty.

The game cannot and will not be designed or changed by outliners and people that are too ignorant to search for information to help them. The normal lab likely has longer times because its the first appearance of the lab for the players of the game, some people go in without any information or experience, leading them to run into various dead ends and trying to access all of the side zones.

In terms of that crash, its at the loading screen where he spam clicked the door, its a common issue that I thought had been addressed, but its not an issue with the lab itself, but merely a bug, like any other that needs to be fixed.

In terms of your list, its gaining what 2-3 people a week, that isn't anywhere close to being enough to make an impact, like I said before most of the people complaining would have far less to complain about if they cared to inform themselves at all, instead of endlessly wondering around or not understanding what mechanics of izaro can 1 shot and what cannot.

The expectation that players need to read a book to play PoE is one of the biggest issues with this game. This could be one of the worst games when it comes to informing players on how to play its own game. There is no way you are going to know that someone created a website program to track the layout of the lab, outside of GGG mind you.

And in terms of list gaining people is irrelevant. Lab threads keep popping up, and people keep talking about it. People keep posting on them as well, keep them going. So it always right in your face, as one of the top things you see in the forums.

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QuiquePoE wrote:

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

But also, the amount of time and effort spent to create the lab and then, use an external tool, cheese its mechanics and yet, a lot of people still hate it. What a waste.

If this game wasn't Path of Wallmart, not sure how many would even bother doing it outside of ascendancy points.

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Turtledove wrote:

Under lab rework ideas in the OP, I suggest a number

8. This suggestion won't resolve the aspect of the labyrinth that makes it not fun for many people but, if there were way-points/portals after each Izaro fight it would reduce some of the frustration that people feel in having to go through the the whole bad content again if they die to Izaro, lag, desynch, etc.. This would also allow in-game trading and some RL interruptions while earning one's ascendancy points. If GGG felt that options to discourage use might be required then they might include, losing keys, Izaro health renewal, losing the enchant option, etc..

edited in other even more frustrating ways to die as listed by UltimateForm below.

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4) Checkpoints in every aspirant's trial plaza (the area with the stash). Portals opened inside the labyrinth can be joined from Sarn by other party members even if they didnt start the labyrinth from the beginning. Portals can only be opened in aspirant's trial areas. Players entering portals in that way forfeit every kind of reward (loot/treasure keyes/enchantments) except ascendancy points. Players that open them but started the labyrinth from the beginning dont lose anything. Players that die or disconnect or simply get out of the labyrinth via a portal can choose to enter the labyrinth again and teleported to the most recent checkpoint they activated or the portal they opened which will lead to the aspirants trial plaza. Doing so also forfeits every kind of reward except ascendancy points. Everything else remains the same. *Another way would be to spawn a tp (of course when Izaro is killed) near the ascendancy altar, that can be accessed by a player staying in the first lab room. That player can only gain ascendancy points and nothing else if he joins the tp.
-Regulator, *sucemab

An easy way to satisfy and solve many problems at once. First and more important people who for any reason disconnect or their game crashes can have the choice to at least somewhat continue their run to get the ascendancy points by forfeiting though every other reward. A fair trade that also refines the whole lab experience. Second, it gives the chance for people who cant/dont want/simply hate the labyrinth to get the ascendancy points and nothing else at all. Labyrinth runners now can sell their runs too so people can ascend. Since nothing else changes that can for the right price keep everyone happy.

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG fully expected people to share information about the layouts of the lab.

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goetzjam wrote:

In terms of who would bother doing it outside of AC points, there is little reason to do normal and cruel after you've done them. Still are a couple of people that try to run them for the lab reward (jewel)

In terms of merciless and uber, its well known that people farm uber for the enchants and the rewards and likely many farm merciless at least to get gloves and boot enchantments depending.

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QuiquePoE wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG fully expected people to share information about the layouts of the lab.

But they didn't expect new players would need to have, at least, a reference of its existance?

I know this design philosophy resonates well with a lot of players - even with GGG itself. But not for me.

I don't belive an egaging and deep gameplay is achieved by leaving me in the dark and at a great disadvantage. Because PoE is a pretty competitive game, if not in terms of ladders (because, who gives a damn?), in terms of its economy.

And I have to wonder if this line of thinking (obscure design) is not expelling more people than it attracts.

In the end, if it's not for me, so be it.

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goetzjam wrote:

In terms of who would bother doing it outside of AC points, there is little reason to do normal and cruel after you've done them. Still are a couple of people that try to run them for the lab reward (jewel)

In terms of merciless and uber, its well known that people farm uber for the enchants and the rewards and likely many farm merciless at least to get gloves and boot enchantments depending.

Which would still leave Lab in a pretty healthy spot if AC points were removed from it, don't you think?

And, btw, that's what I meant with Path of Wallmart. It's all about making currency. Who cares about the content?

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e1337donkey wrote:

Lab threads keep popping up, and people keep talking about it. People keep posting on them as well, keep them going. So it always right in your face, as one of the top things you see in the forums.