SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

The thing is, it is not just about GGG not giving information.

It's about players expecting more and more information delivered and being assisted, because most recent games are becoming like this.

For example, I learnt that DaoC had still alive classic freeshards ( at least one ), and I started playing it again ( nostalgy ... ).
And I really like the fact that you have a map .... but you do not have your location on it.
It's like actually reading a map, and you need to pay attention to where to are, you need to look around, if you just run brainlessely without knowing : you get lost.
And that's a damn good thing.
It had been a real while, so I almost ha forgotten this feeling.

I would love the lab without a minimap, only it could be a bit shorter then imho.



So even though PoE definitely could display some more information in some cases, I do believe that part of the problem is player's expectation to being assisted much more than GGG wants to ( and I do hope that they stick to that policy, honestly ).

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SudianX wrote:

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e1337donkey wrote:

Lab threads keep popping up, and people keep talking about it. People keep posting on them as well, keep them going. So it always right in your face, as one of the top things you see in the forums.

This is why I suspect goetzjam secretly hates the lab.

I hope I'm wrong.

There isn't any secret or hidden message here. I hate the power creep that is AC points, the game was not balanced for them prior to them being introduced and very little has been done to balance the game post ac points.


The lab itself is actually one of the better designed pieces of content. It provides a challenge that you can play around, its designed to be done in one try without cheesing with portals or refilling flask in town.


In terms of why I keep posting in them, because there are clearly a lot of ignorant people making ignorant statements they won't support. Like how turtle found out the median time was 30+ min for normal.

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If GGG would improve the system by making each new instance random, then there would be no reason to have a 3rd party cheat site and it would be an actual 'labyrinth' for the first time ever.

We've been through this before, it can't be complete random because A) the daily lab race would just be those who received the best layout. B) would give you guys a reason to actually take longer.

In terms of it being an actual lab or not, you are forgetting the fact that the lab itself is broken, thats why you see various traps that don't work and why you are able to navigate it in the first place, but nope gotta forget all the background information on it. I sort of feel sorry for your inability to remember things we've already discussed.

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The_Reporter wrote:

If GGG would improve the system by making each new instance random, then there would be no reason to have a 3rd party cheat site and it would be an actual 'labyrinth' for the first time ever.

Agreed?

I never really used the retarded 3rd party site. The first bunch of times that I decided to run the horrible labyrinth it was just after GGG master-missions/labyrinth reset time and the map was not yet posted. One time it was there but I was not very familiar with labyrinth and the map didn't make much sense. I tried following it but it seemed to slow me down and make the whole thing more painful. I decided it was cheating anyway and so didn't even bother looking up the map for the rest of the times that I ran through the boring labyrinth.


Conclusion: The map might be useful for people that want to cheat (my opinion, more power to you if you disagree) and play enough so that they are already generally familiar with the map symbols and the labyrinth.

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The_Reporter wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

We've been through this before, it can't be complete random because A) the daily lab race would just be those who received the best layout. B) would give you guys a reason to actually take longer.

In terms of it being an actual lab or not, you are forgetting the fact that the lab itself is broken, thats why you see various traps that don't work and why you are able to navigate it in the first place, but nope gotta forget all the background information on it. I sort of feel sorry for your inability to remember things we've already discussed.

A) Only a few dozen care about the lab race anyway, so who cares about minorities? GGG doesn't. Chris even says so. If one guy gets luckier on a layout, who cares? At least it won't be the same guy winning everyday anymore. In the end, randomization is good for the MAJORITY.

B) Why do you care if it gives us guys a reason to take longer? I'd bet GGG would like it if more people spent more time in that dump, no?

I forget a lot of the incoherent babble you post. The majority of us do. :)

The lab race will get more popular when they make it based on gateway, instead of best overall time. They do care more about the design of the content and the consequences of change. You are just trying to detract from the overall experience and its clear you don't understand anything really about the lab's design.

GGG doesn't want people to spend extra unnecessary time doing content, nor do you want to spend more time doing the lab. You want it to take longer "secretly" so you have something you can actually complain about.

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goetzjam wrote:

Read a book?

Does this look like a book to you?



Poe was never created to force feed anyone anything, yet people like you think it should be. Are various aspects of the game harder to get into because of it, sure, but as people learn about the game more and grow they gain the ability to start thinking and doing for themselves

All that is is map layout of the lab, if I need additional information on what/how to combat Izaro's mechanics, I also need to research that. As well as all those weird items(Forgot the name, I never use them) that help in those phases. As well as the rewards at the very end. How key drops work, enchants, ascendancy. This is all a part of the lab but never really explained to anyone. Especially if you haven't played when Ascendancy came out since it isn't in the top page anymore.

But this doesn't even start/stop with the lab, the rest of the game is like this where players have no clue about anything. God forbid brand new players start the game up... its easy for players like ourselves who have been around for a long time, this comes so natural to us. But newer players have way too much to take in. GGG has done nothing over the years to assist in this.

So no, obviously I didn't mean a book literally... but you have to do a ton of research outside the game just to understand the game. When the beauty of game design is you can teach a player simply by them playing it. You don't need to hold someones hand, but you can design games to lead people in the right direction. This game doesn't even try to do that.

Heh, the argument that "Labyrinth" is broken so lets have a linear pathing and call it as such because it gives great immersion. Bleah.

"Labyrinth" is one of the most interesting designed pieces of the game, but it fails to have an identity regarding it's purpose, due to a linear path to follow and having "carries"...

They missed the mark overemphasising a content that was supposed to slow the "speed meta" down and reward careful tactical gameplay by installing leader boards and turning it into a speed contest...

If only they made parties to have all alive members in Izaro's presence to start the fight, and God forbid, have a limit of +2 Ascendacy points for the members running the "Labyrinth" for those points and making it a personal experience by having random runs for Ascendancy Points...

Izaro and the "Labyrinth" should have been a gear, build and skillplay check, but at the moment it reaches neither of these targets and lacks purpose - except mind numbing grinding for enchants, and having great drops in a reasonable way to give a danger/reward ratio like Uber Lab is in contrast to Guardians/Shaper or Uber Atziri that require more implication to get there, Uber Lab is more accessible...

If only obtaining Ascendancy Points would be more on your own character's back instead of over-relying on others, even with just using a detailed layout and phases description, it's just a boring way to cheat exploring on your own and just gunning for efficiency...

Some of us remember a time when you had to work for those advancements and different advantages that made you feel like a God amongst mortals, but even though so many "Labyrinth" supporters are praising it, and don't think there is still a lot to improve, due to having access to a map that renders the "Labyrinth" term moot, and having "carries" to do your work for you - yeah, I'm even conceding that you have to just pass the traps to wait for the "magic" to happen so you do something like pay marginal attention and spam health/quicksilver flasks to keep up - it's sad to see so much wasted potential.

The "Labyrinth" should feel like the apogee of your journey with the character, and an further immersion instalment, but for now, it's a missed opportunity to put some accent on the skillplay of the players and reward them for improving on that side too...

They could and should improve the experience further...

so now the 'map' is a problem? are you guys for real? seriously?

maybe delete the wiki as well? POE never had a good 'learning curve' - it is all cheap no-info-dump, learn as you go 'approach'. it is most likely a sum of lack of resources (and ideas) AND deliberate action: players taht need to look for answers will stay longer, hook earlier, buy more mtx. anything that can keep player playing goes. lack of info - too. mystery is a big hook (thus that stupid fishing meme)

the lab should be done solo-only. i know it screws the 'supports' but.. to hell with them. support characters are one of the cancers that dumb down the game. they should go (or at least be required to at least carry their own weight)

i agree that some aspects of the lab are not perfect. the helm enchants are one of them - this system sucks (95% of all helmets are hubris.. healthy for the game?) but in general i find it enjoyable and a very good test for my builds

i play non meta so i cannot kill izaro in 5 seconds. i have to fight him. so beating uber means that not only i can kill him but i also can avoid being killed. izaro is a perfect boss encounter. tought but as fair as possible. to a willing player he will be VERY happy to point out the holes in the build

note: i carried a player once (for free) in cruel. and got carried once (for 3? chaos + got scammed by the first guy) when my ping floated around 200. so im not saying that because i profit from carrying other players (given my proficiency with the lab - i could make a living doing that. but i prefer no human-human interaction in this game)