SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It's not as crazy as it sounds, Turtle. If the mission is "find a map" and you get a lucky drop in the first pack of monsters, you can complete a mission in 10 seconds. I've done it more than once. That's the only Zana mission in which such a fast completion is possible, however.

What's more interesting here is the fact that Zana is the least-complained about Master, and furthermore that people often continue to stretch out her missions as long as possible. Why do you guys suppose that is?

I mean sure, it's a free map, but more specifically I think it is indicative that her missions play to the natural strengths of the game, unlike some of the other Master missions (and, more to the point, unlike the Labyrinth).

This is useful (to GGG) to note for two reasons:

1. It suggests that all future content should be evaluated, before release, on the basis of whether it plays to the genre's, and specifically to PoE's, already existing strengths.

2. It suggests that any Labyrinth rework that might be in the pipelines (unlikely but possible) also be completed--and evaluated before release--with the game's natural strengths in mind.

What you say is true especially the fact that Zana is the best daily mission because it most closely follows the normal PoE play. The assertion though was "Zana mission itself usually takes like 10-60 seconds for me". It wasn't an assertion about the fastest possible, it was usually. A map mission that finishes in ten seconds happens so rarely that counting on it or including it in a "usually" statement doesn't make sense. It is such a silly assertion that I felt there was no reason to read further.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It suggests that any Labyrinth rework that might be in the pipelines (unlikely but possible) also be completed--and evaluated before release--with the game's natural strengths in mind.

I also doubt that GGG is planning to remove ascendancy points from the Labyrinth, even though it would surely be to their benefit (new games are coming along all the time). But it is at least encouraging that "Extend Labyrinth" is prominent among their recently leaked list of "Potential Improvements"

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ShaUrley wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

It suggests that any Labyrinth rework that might be in the pipelines (unlikely but possible) also be completed--and evaluated before release--with the game's natural strengths in mind.

I also doubt that GGG is planning to remove ascendancy points from the Labyrinth, even though it would surely be to their benefit (new games are coming along all the time). But it is at least encouraging that "Extend Labyrinth" is prominent among their recently leaked list of "Potential Improvements"

Yes, that is evidence that the issue is visible enough internally to get "playtime." ;)

They will almost certainly remove the Ascendancy points from the Labyrinth if they don't rework it. I'm much more hoping for a rework, but as a solution to endemic Labyrinth hatred (and the side effects of that) it is A) more expensive and B) less profitable (fixing old content creates much less buzz than creating new content).

What is most likely, given their silence on this issue, is that it will be reintegrated somehow into 3.0's new content, since they're creating it anyhow. That way there will be enough positive buzz to (mostly) drown out the negativity of implicitly acknowledging the mistake.

Despite my own personal preference for a Labyrinth rework, if I were in their shoes I would ignore any suggestions for a rework and instead do exactly as I just described. I also would not let any such details leak until the last minute. From a business point of view, this is pretty obviously the solution that makes the most sense.

And GGG is not stupid.

Well, only GGG has enough data to take the decision on what to do with their game, it all comes back to this at the end.

I think that the strongest part of Zana missions is the fact that it can drop actual maps that are not just Tier 1.

And when you get the "find the map mission", sometimes you need to reach the boss or almost to get it, this also happens.

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Fruz wrote:

Well, only GGG has enough data to take the decision on what to do with their game, it all comes back to this at the end.

I think that the strongest part of Zana missions is the fact that it can drop actual maps that are not just Tier 1.

And when you get the "find the map mission", sometimes you need to reach the boss or almost to get it, this also happens.

I think the way those missions work is that there is a guaranteed map drop somewhere in the map, but other map drops are not disabled, and so if you are lucky and happen to get a (non-planned) one first, it just activates the mission as having been completed.

Well once you get the first map, you can get more after, so my bet would just be that .... the only guaranteed map drop is the boss.
It seem like the easiest way to implement it.

If you get lucky, sure you can just stop at the first one, but you could also drop other maps in a pretty easy moded free map so ....

Yep. It's also fun gameplay. Which was kind of my original point. You don't have to reach the end of the experience before it feels fun, unlike certain other Master missions or (for many people) the Labyrinth.

The Labyrinth has much in common with the less-fun Master missions for that exact reason.

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Fruz wrote:

Well once you get the first map, you can get more after, so my bet would just be that .... the only guaranteed map drop is the boss.
It seem like the easiest way to implement it.

If you get lucky, sure you can just stop at the first one, but you could also drop other maps in a pretty easy moded free map so ....

I've had that mission drop the only map from a chest. I now open all chests, pots, etc. as I go along in that mission.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Well once you get the first map, you can get more after, so my bet would just be that .... the only guaranteed map drop is the boss.
It seem like the easiest way to implement it.

If you get lucky, sure you can just stop at the first one, but you could also drop other maps in a pretty easy moded free map so ....

I've had that mission drop the only map from a chest. I now open all chests, pots, etc. as I go along in that mission.

You should be turning every rock and breaking everything. Surprisingly a large portion of my higher value currency (chaos and exalts) come from turning rocks or breaking stuff, opening sarcophogi and so on.

I am quite annoyed by the lab locking ascendancy points. If people enjoy labs then they will do them anyways, the thing is, is that the trap mechanics are ridiculous versus low-life/ES builds like summoners. On my marauder I can walk through the traps and not pop a potion at all, it is a complete night and day difference. I don't see why they don't just allow you to get ascendancy points after killing malachai on each difficulty, and then perhaps to get the "uber" points you would have to beat certain tiers of maps. Win-win for everyone that way, people could still play the labs, and for those of us who don't enjoy it we could still get our ascendancy points without having to play "dodge the trap" for 20 minutes. Seriously ridiculous that I can clear T6+ maps and struggle with a cruel lab because a stupid trap comes out from the wall and comes at me 100km/h to burn me down at level 77. I really wish the labs were optional, I have no friends on my friends list who do them when they do not have to.

To me, that shows that it isn't fun and is something they should have introduced to the community instead of being sneaky and changing the game completely. This was a really bad idea to implement traps in an ARPG. This isn't a rogue-like game.