SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

Wow. This thread is still going on? Interesting. Meanwhile, I started farming Uber Lab - actually a very fun experience! Just the Golden Key room which had a Voidspawn pack which then spawned Abaxoth was.... a bit much ;). I could not see the lever any more and had the choice between staying and dying and running back into the traps and dying. I chose dying somewhere in between.

ye lab may be fun in sc.... but its a pain in hc... ruins my fun to level a char at all.

Go for Ascendancy Orb! :)

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Jgizle wrote:

Truly hc players are actually happy when they die, as it doesn't happen often and every death they accrue is a learning experience. Not 1 streamer has ever died and was angry when they died. They are smart enough to realize their error in gameplay and not blame others for their death. Even the worst of mechanics that can wreck you can be avoided by simply being aware of your surroundings, what monsters are present, and how they interact.

So is there a Cast on Lag gem I missed that can save you by casting Immortal Call for you?

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FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

So is there a Cast on Lag gem I missed that can save you by casting Immortal Call for you?

Completely irrelevant, try again, or better : don't.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Sorry, I'm not interested in talking about exalted:chaos trading ratios or any other theories about the relationship between economics and player retention. I simply stated a fact.

Some players tried the lab and disliked it enough to quit the game outright and uninstall. I'm sure some of them were killed in the lab their first time and some of them were not killed but merely disgusted (as I was, my first lab run).

Whether that fits your definition (or my view) of "rage quit" is irrelevant. "Rage-quitting" a game and "disliking" a game are not mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's such an obvious observation that I'm a little confused to see you take issue with it, to be honest.

You stated an opinion with anecdotal evidence, I stated a fact, actual numbers given by GGG. That should be obvious.

Saying people tried Lab and uninstalled the game because they didn't like it is not proof of fact. How many people do you know for a fact actually quit and uninstalled the game. How many of those compare to the actual player base. A minuscule amount that no one cares about. How do you know if people in SC were rage quitting if you played HC, and how do you know if it was a significant or insignificant amount?

All I see is opinions being stated as facts.

A small community even uses the forums. A just as small community even trades at all. A just as small community plays HC, and equally as much plays Leagues in general. The largest player base is standard. These are facts.

Hey man, I'm sorry, and I'm really not trying to insult your intelligence by saying this (honest), but I don't think you understand the difference between an opinion and a fact.

Here's a good rule of thumb to help you:

If it's an opinion, and our statements differ, you and I can still both be right.
If it's a fact, and our statements differ, you and I cannot both be right.

Which of these does the following statement fit into?
"Softcore players exist who have quit the game after being disgusted by the Labyrinth."

Now, you can dispute the veracity of what I said, or you can dispute the relevance of what I said, but calling it something it is not ("an opinion") does not strengthen your position; rather, it weakens it, because it demonstrates that you do not understand what the word "opinion" means.

Facts require evidence. You have none. Nonetheless 5 ppl quiting doesn't mean lab is bad, it means they suck. If I can do Uber Lab any 1 else can do it. It might not be as easy, but it can be done. Does that mean lab sucks, no. It just means its content that is actually challenging that has valuable rewards, ie the whole point of lab.

These facts remain. It is impossible to distinguish a player who quits the game due to lab, and a player who didn't quit due to lab. A player quiting due to lab does not mean lab is bad. Wanting an easier way to get ascendancy points because you personally dislike the change in gameplay style does not mean lab is bad. Being unable to complete lab means your build is lacking in several areas, it doesn't mean lab is unfair or to difficult.

Lab needs some tweaks sure. But out of the 280 pages in this thread, no one has given a good reason to entirely remove ascendancy points from Lab. People have complained but not given many solutions.

It's easy to fix the Lab, just replace the traps by mobs to kill.
Laby sucks because it's bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, burning, bleeding, bleeding...
While we play that game to kill mobs.

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Jgizle wrote:

Lab needs some tweaks sure. But out of the 280 pages in this thread, no one has given a good reason to entirely remove ascendancy points from Lab. People have complained but not given many solutions.

Mhm.

I see several on the first page alone.

Following up with, "But those reasons aren't GOOD reasons. I specified GOOD reasons!" is a fallacious argument, by the way. I think it's more likely you simply aren't interested in people's reasons for hating the Labyrinth so much.

And if you think the massive controversy accompanying this content is a manufactured one, and that the Labyrinth isn't truly what has driven people away from the game in whole or in part, then why bother participating in the discussion? You can just let it die, and not bump the thread further.

I personally feel that the Ascendancy points should remain within, and the Lab should be fixed. Personal correspondence with GGG has indicated that it is more likely that they will be removed, which makes me sad (but that was months ago, and was a speculative prediction by the dev in question, so I hold out some hope yet). But denying that there are significant problems that cannot be fixed with minor "tweaks" isn't doing anyone any favors, least of all fans of the Labyrinth such as yourself.

Facepalm at Jgizle that thinks not one good reason has been given to remove ascend from lab. I guess he skipped the first 200 pages

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FixLabPLSGGG wrote:

Facepalm at Jgizle that thinks not one good reason has been given to remove ascend from lab. I guess he skipped the first 200 pages

Lab "is not fun" is not a good reason, try again with something of value.