SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

So I have thought long and hard about this subject, and come to some conclusions that I previously did not consider. ( I am an old retired guy, so I have plenty of time to mull over things, if I want to)

Now the reason why I never considered them, is because, like most people, my reasoning was tainted by personal belief. I believe in artistic freedom and integrity. Make of that what you will, it is a holdover from my university days. That had a lot to do with my advocacy toward not changing the lab.

Once I recognized this flaw ( which is highly subjective, some may see this flaw as instrumental in making a decision) in my reasoning, I decided to try and extrapolate that belief out and take a look at the issue again.

so I went back and read all the threads (quite a feat) and came to the conclusion that most of the arguments for and against the lab were also based on individual bias. So I also disregarded them all.

The next thing I looked at were peoples solutions. There was no real need to evaluate pro lab solutions, because they are all the same. Leave it as it is. The second set of solutions were those proposed by the folks who dislike the lab, for whatever reason. There were quite a few , but they all centered around removing ascendancy points from the lab, as is the topic of this thread.

I am not going to go into all the pros and cons of this solution, because if you take the issue seriously, you have already done that yourself, and once again, those pros and cons will be tainted by personal belief.

What did I come up with? If the only reason I believe that the lab should not be changed is because of my bias toward artistic integrity, then it is a selfish reason to oppose change.

The next thing I considered is how the anti-lab lobby's solution would effect the game as a whole. I was unable to come up with a reason that was not selfish or dependent on my personal beliefs.

Conclusion: Although I personally believe the lab should stay as is, and that changing it is disrespectful to the artists and engineers that created it, removing ascendancy points from the lab will not hurt the game or my enjoyment of it.

You missed my solution which was remove them from the game totally.

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Xtorma wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

I know where you are coming from, but I have to say, the lab is more optional than the annoying godless 3 / Malachi fight. Also , if they remove ascendancy points from the lab, which I have no problem with, they better not be gated behind Malachi, because I ALWAYS skip him in merc.

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Xtorma wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

So I have thought long and hard about this subject, and come to some conclusions that I previously did not consider. ( I am an old retired guy, so I have plenty of time to mull over things, if I want to)

Now the reason why I never considered them, is because, like most people, my reasoning was tainted by personal belief. I believe in artistic freedom and integrity. Make of that what you will, it is a holdover from my university days. That had a lot to do with my advocacy toward not changing the lab.

Once I recognized this flaw ( which is highly subjective, some may see this flaw as instrumental in making a decision) in my reasoning, I decided to try and extrapolate that belief out and take a look at the issue again.

so I went back and read all the threads (quite a feat) and came to the conclusion that most of the arguments for and against the lab were also based on individual bias. So I also disregarded them all.

The next thing I looked at were peoples solutions. There was no real need to evaluate pro lab solutions, because they are all the same. Leave it as it is. The second set of solutions were those proposed by the folks who dislike the lab, for whatever reason. There were quite a few , but they all centered around removing ascendancy points from the lab, as is the topic of this thread.

I am not going to go into all the pros and cons of this solution, because if you take the issue seriously, you have already done that yourself, and once again, those pros and cons will be tainted by personal belief.

What did I come up with? If the only reason I believe that the lab should not be changed is because of my bias toward artistic integrity, then it is a selfish reason to oppose change.

The next thing I considered is how the anti-lab lobby's solution would effect the game as a whole. I was unable to come up with a reason that was not selfish or dependent on my personal beliefs.

Conclusion: Although I personally believe the lab should stay as is, and that changing it is disrespectful to the artists and engineers that created it, removing ascendancy points from the lab will not hurt the game or my enjoyment of it.

You missed my solution which was remove them from the game totally.

I already said I disregarded selfish solutions. That did not just apply to me. Otherwise my solution for you would be, if you don't like it....hit the road.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

I know where you are coming from, but I have to say, the lab is more optional than the annoying godless 3 / Malachi fight. Also , if they remove ascendancy points from the lab, which I have no problem with, they better not be gated behind Malachi, because I ALWAYS skip him in merc.

You need to do Malachi any way for the prophecy's. I don't mind hard content, its not gated behind a 30 minute snore fest or another game (frogger).

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Xtorma wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

I know where you are coming from, but I have to say, the lab is more optional than the annoying godless 3 / Malachi fight. Also , if they remove ascendancy points from the lab, which I have no problem with, they better not be gated behind Malachi, because I ALWAYS skip him in merc.

You need to do Malachi any way for the prophecy's. I don't mind hard content, its not gated behind a 30 minute snore fest or another game (frogger).

so far the furthest I have had to go was shavronne.

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Xtorma wrote:

so far the furthest I have had to go was shavronne.

Speaking of frogger, I am constantly playing it in maps because of bearers/volatile blood.

Buzzsaw / swirling blades traps? corrupted blood/poison. use those pots!

Spike throwing traps? porcupine beasts w/ poison mod. machinegun chickens.

Spikes from the floor? Brutus! leap away! leap back!


The frogger comparison is getting old.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Those aren't really valid comparisons because:

1) You can kill/cc the monsters. You can't interact with the traps.

2) The monsters are continually changing position and changing you around. It's not a "wait to move" game.

3) Many of those effects don't behave in the same manner as the compared trap.

If you don't like the Frogger comparison, you'll have to wait for Lab to be changed so that it doesn't play like Frogger, because right now it really does.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

The dung beetle says, "I saw you sucking on poop the other day."

Beetle that doesn't normally eat poop says, "I was dying of thirst and hunger. That doesn't mean I like it."

The dung beetle says, "Doesn't matter you now have to eat poop everyday. I don't want to hear anymore complaints that you don't like poop. If you don't eat poop then you can't eat anything else but eating poop is completely optional. You spend more time complaining about eating poop than it would take you to just eat the poop. Eat poop and no more complaining! I have spoken!"