SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

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Thank you for saying and seeing this. Hope it serves as an example for others to see that certain changes will have absolutely no negative effect on the game and the way they play it. Respect for fairness and objectivity towards our problem even if you dont share it.

GGG doesn't make design choices to "appeal to the masses" they make the game they want and we play it. Its better this way because it allows the team to be more passionate about what they work on and overall deliver a better product.

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Fruz wrote:

The lab is definitely one step in the right direction to make Wraeclast dangerous again.

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AceNightfire wrote:

[...]

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AceNightfire wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Thank you for saying and seeing this. Hope it serves as an example for others to see that certain changes will have absolutely no negative effect on the game and the way they play it. Respect for fairness and objectivity towards our problem even if you dont share it.

GGG doesn't make design choices to "appeal to the masses" they make the game they want and we play it. Its better this way because it allows the team to be more passionate about what they work on and overall deliver a better product.

It's not better. It's just a way of doing things. There are plenty of projects who work very close with the community suggestions in mind (and also communicate with the community...) and are very passionate. Google the game "Stonehearth". Every decission that changes the game is influenced by the commuinity. The community itself is absolutely great and no hate or flame in the forum. It's quite the opposite from what you see in Path of Exile. People in the stonehearth forum suggest things and people give good reasons why things should or should not change and the best thing is, that the developer answers to most of the threads, giving the players a good idea of what the developer thinks about certain suggestions.

GGG on the other side is absolutely silent about such very important topics (which I actually REALLY hate as a player). And they throw in stuff that is controversily discussed by the community. THis is not a problem as long as those things are entirely optional, so the player can decide if he wants to enjoy the content or not and if not, he can ignore it. THe lab is one of these things which are just not optional. TheAnuhart said that this is intentional and it was designed for carry services. I say this argument is just wrong on all levels. A game and content is supposed to be fun. Players will only stick with a game, as long as they feel they have fun with the game and its content. As soon as a game feels more like working then playing, players will start to complain. If the complaints are not taken care of by the developer, the players will leave the game. When a new league gets released, players come back in the hope something has changed for the good, but as can be seen by steam charts, the playerbase rapidly drops after a league gets released. Ofc you could say that the league is probably just shit and it has nothing to do with the lab. But the lab could be an influencing factor we should consider at least. And as things stand, players get more and more angry about GGG because they dont do anything about Lab/AC Points, nor do they announce anything like if they will or will not change it. If they at least would give a clear answer about this topic, players could just decide to leave the game or not.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Oh, the "Lab is optional" bullshit again? Yeah, nobody buys that. Try selling it elsewhere.

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Xtorma wrote:

So I have thought long and hard about this subject, and come to some conclusions that I previously did not consider. ( I am an old retired guy, so I have plenty of time to mull over things, if I want to)

Now the reason why I never considered them, is because, like most people, my reasoning was tainted by personal belief. I believe in artistic freedom and integrity. Make of that what you will, it is a holdover from my university days. That had a lot to do with my advocacy toward not changing the lab.

Once I recognized this flaw ( which is highly subjective, some may see this flaw as instrumental in making a decision) in my reasoning, I decided to try and extrapolate that belief out and take a look at the issue again.

so I went back and read all the threads (quite a feat) and came to the conclusion that most of the arguments for and against the lab were also based on individual bias. So I also disregarded them all.

The next thing I looked at were peoples solutions. There was no real need to evaluate pro lab solutions, because they are all the same. Leave it as it is. The second set of solutions were those proposed by the folks who dislike the lab, for whatever reason. There were quite a few , but they all centered around removing ascendancy points from the lab, as is the topic of this thread.

I am not going to go into all the pros and cons of this solution, because if you take the issue seriously, you have already done that yourself, and once again, those pros and cons will be tainted by personal belief.

What did I come up with? If the only reason I believe that the lab should not be changed is because of my bias toward artistic integrity, then it is a selfish reason to oppose change.

The next thing I considered is how the anti-lab lobby's solution would effect the game as a whole. I was unable to come up with a reason that was not selfish or dependent on my personal beliefs.

Conclusion: Although I personally believe the lab should stay as is, and that changing it is disrespectful to the artists and engineers that created it, removing ascendancy points from the lab will not hurt the game or my enjoyment of it.