SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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goetzjam wrote:

You think it isn't that big of a deal for GGG to add AC points to malachai, but the issue is it really is, from a design perspective no act bosses at all give any rewards, they simply allow you to progress into the next act or difficulty. Breaking that setup just to appease to the people that dislike the lab not only removes the purpose of challenge for reward and going out of your way to get said reward, but it would encourage player feedback to continue to demand that people get additional power essentially for "free" which the malachai rewards are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
It's fine to change the gamplay of the game design-wise, but the reward system should be out of bounds of any change. It would be catastrophic to have the first four asc points behind progression and the last four behind challenging fights. Well said!
Merciless malachai is a challenging fight last time i checked.

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goetzjam wrote:

Not only that it doesn't fit the whole lab scheme together, what about the last 2 points of the 8? Ideas like this were mentioned before the last 2 points were revealed, they've been left in the same empty state as stated, which is why the whole massively list all of the ideas is a terrible idea, it doesn't actually accomplish anything but give GGG a list of mediocre at best ideas to solve an issue they have with the game.

The glove\boot enchantments for merc are alright, but only the endgame lab enchantments are even relevant now, nothing else, at least in SC temp league even matters. So by giving points for killing malachai, you know something you already have to do in 2\3 difficulties its 100% giving them away for free and removing the purpose of having players do new content, which they later will almost certainly bitch about the lack of content.

Last two can remain where they are. Your opinion about the ideas imaginative people come up with is not welcome. Don't be jealous because you couldn't come up with any solution yourself. About what happens with the enchants, they are a great carrot as you say in softcore and will remain relevant to lab running so the lab will not be obsolete with the proposed changes.

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goetzjam wrote:

GGG doesn't make changes for the "majority" or "vocal players" they make changes based on what they view as acceptable. Don't think for a second that the shitty idea of just adding it to malachai fixes shit, it doesn't and it isn't a good change for the game (it won't happen anyway, if they so choose to go down that route, all future support will be lost from me)

Don't be delusional, you don't know how GGG operates, if anything they already changed course when they added the lab, so taking complete turnarounds on their game is nothing new.

And again you haven't proven that they are shitty. Also, your support threats are really helpful in proving how shitty the ideas posted in this thread are.


EleHit

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

For a long while she WAS the act boss. So to say they have some kind of a set design agenda about where rewards are dealt, is incorrect.

Act 3 wasn't complete. Its like saying that kaom+duresso was the act bosses of 4 because GGG didn't give us access to malachai and beyond until the very last week.

There most definitely is an agenda about where the rewards are, I know this because when dominus was added I complained about not getting the map everytime I killed him and it felt unrewarding in global, which had a GGG staff member post specifically about this. You don't have to believe me if you don't want, but you can't say I'm wrong as all indication of evidence is apparent by the current game design that I am right.

The burden of proof is on you, not me to prove the situation isn't as I describe.

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It's fine to change the gamplay of the game design-wise, but the reward system should be out of bounds of any change. It would be catastrophic to have the first four asc points behind progression and the last four behind challenging fights. Well said!
Merciless malachai is a challenging fight last time i checked.

Merciless malachai might be challenging, but its still content that someone can easily carry you thru, without risk to you, unlike the lab which always has situations where you can die.

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Last two can remain where they are. Your opinion about the ideas imaginative people come up with is not welcome. Don't be jealous because you couldn't come up with any solution yourself. About what happens with the enchants, they are a great carrot as you say in softcore and will remain relevant to lab running so the lab will not be obsolete with the proposed changes.

Why would I come up with a solution if I don't view it as a problem to begin with? Like what kind of nonsensical statement is that? The one idea in this thread in which I do support, would be making a sort of alternative lab that more on the puzzle aspects and would take longer, rather then on the traps.

With the malcahi purposed change, normal cruel and merciless lab all become pointless content, with only speed runners trying to get the fastest daily record. No incentive whatsoever to do it if you can get the most important reward from the lab outside of it.

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Don't be delusional, you don't know how GGG operates, if anything they already changed course when they added the lab, so taking complete turnarounds on their game is nothing new.

Right just watching what they've done over the years isn't enough. Just wait and see when they don't make the massive changes that people want to the lab, all these people here threating to quit instead of actually doing it is far worst then my promise of lost support if they do make AC points available outside of the lab.

The current game design is: Get skill points from doing trivial things but you should not get asc points from doing trivial things. NICE LOGIC

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

@ Goat

If you have such a direct line with the GGG brain trust, explain to me why there are 2 passive points at Piety.

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Merciless malachai might be challenging, but its still content that someone can easily carry you thru, without risk to you, unlike the lab which always has situations where you can die.

Lab can still be carried through and bought.

I don't know why there are 2 passive points at piety, you are welcome to ask them that question as I haven't really ever worried about why she gaves 2 passive skill points.

Lab can be carried, but the traps still have kill potential on almost all characters, much different then sitting safely at the waypoint for a malchai kill.

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The current game design is: Get skill points from doing trivial things but you should not get asc points from doing trivial things. NICE LOGIC

You just countered almost all arguments about why the lab needs to be changed with the statement that it is trival, if it indeed was then people should have no problem doing it.

You misunderstood. What i am saying is: Why is it bad design to give asc points for something trivial? We already get skill points for doing trivial things like pushing a button or releasing a ghost. So it's bad design because you say so? Well then whole game is badly designed.

And yes the lab is trivial too. The only challenge is in trying to keep your vomit inside.

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Casual_Ascent wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

I don't know why there are 2 passive points at piety, you are welcome to ask them that question as I haven't really ever worried about why she gaves 2 passive skill points.

Lab can be carried, but the traps still have kill potential on almost all characters, much different then sitting safely at the waypoint for a malchai kill.

You claim to know everything, so I figured you'd know that as well.

The reason you get 2 there is because Piety was the end boss of the act. Why they haven't shifted the 2 points to Dominus now, or at least split the points between Piety and Dominus, or between Dominus and Malachai, only Chris knows. But it is CERTAINLY not because of some internal rule to not have points at act bosses.

AND The paid Lab service guys leave the payers at the gold doors and do the gold key backtracking for them, so they don't need to go through a good portion of the traps. Thought you'd know that one too.

Get better at knowing stuff, forum leader. You're slipping :)

Why didn't vaal have skill points or mervil, its because the reward for killing act bosses is the ability to progress forward, this was stated in global and I'm pretty sure there is a statement out there by Chris as well.

Piety was only the end of the act because the act wasn't finished. You should know that.


Like the gold door part matters that much, its 1 less volley of traps you have to navigate thru, but most lab layouts have at least 3 sets of traps you must go thru, even without golden doors, your pretending that it is somehow easier to navigate thru the lab and not die then wait outside at the WP or better yet the top area of the malchai fight in order to get carried is funny as shit. Getting carried thru boss fights in the storyline progression of the game can be 100% safe, getting carried thru ANY lab will never be that, unless you explicitly do some funky shit.

How about you just post on your main account from now on instead of an alt? Perhaps reveal your true identity instead of hiding behind a smurf account?